To get pissed off at children running around in restaurants?

[CelticPixie]

We went out for lunch today and there was a large group sat behind us. It was obviously a family celebration with parents, grandparents, kids etc. A little boy from the group who must have been around two was running around our part of the restaurant screaming and shouting and getting under the feet of waiting staff carrying hot food etc. He also kept approaching people at other tables and kept asking them if they were having their dinner and what they were having. At no point did his parents do anything to stop him and they just kept on smiling at him, but it was obvious that he was getting on everyone else's nerves.

Its a family friendly place and there were lots of other small children in there but he was the only one running about and being a nuisance. I will NOT allow my DDs to run about and disrupt others people's meals and it pisses me off that other people have so little consideration for anyone but themselves. If mine wants to go to the loo one of us takes them, if they are bored we take them out to the play area. It's really not hard is it?

The mudslinging is there through frustration- lots of people don't like it but some parents won't accept it.

Bella why do you keep insisting that the behaviour does not do any harm? Several people have told about actual cases where a waitress walked into a wandering child just like that, hurting either themselves, the child or a third party due to that child.
It is dangerous to let children wander around in places where hot food, heavy plates, glasses and knives are constantly carried around - why is it so difficult to understand?

bella I ran a restaurant in London for 12 years. The parents who allowed running about we're the bane of our lives. I am fairly cool with kids chatting to other tables etc within reason as some children are like that and inthink there is a middle ground between sitting like statues and being children but do not think therevaren't accidents etc. And just getting around when it is busy is hard enough without having to consider burning a 3 year old at the same time. I think you can gauge what type of restaurant it is. If people are sitting having a family meal and there is no provision for children eg a play area then you should presume that the staff expect your child to sit too. If there is a play area etc then it is safe to say children getting down from the table has been catered for. What used to drive us nuts was the expectation mainly from bloody hooray Henry's thatbwe would keep an eye out for their children like some sort of unpaid nanny! My own ds was always very smiley with other tables but never ran around tbh probably as he spent more time eating out than he should ( I love a restaurant ) so knew what to do. I think the SN aspect is separate and is not comparable

some nasty comments being made towards MsBella, are you thick, you will have troubled teenagers, calling her children brats and calling her something worse mentally and we wonder why mn has bad press at times

thankfully people I know in rl are not as judgemental, personally if a young child wondered over and said hello I would be amused my friends would be too maybe we just go to family friendly places maybe MsBella does too and this is the norm yet someone thinks slightly differently, others not knowing the set up, not knowing MsBella though she has not said it is ok for children to run about screaming just she gives a little more freedom than some is a terrible mother and personal attacks are aimed at her and worse her children

MN you need to work on your pr it I has had a bit of a bashing these last few days this on here is why

YNBU to the huge safety issue I have with it like has been said about the hot drinks and food etc.
My Ds has recently turned 4 and by my own admission is a lot more brattish challenging than my Dd was at that age and I'm one of them Parents always trying to control the situation and if it gets too much I'll take him out. I get a bit cross with those who obviously don't care/realise what their child is doing. Most of the time I only have sympathy for other parents who you can clearly see are having a trying day and just thank god it's not my turn for once!

MsBella - I am going to ask you again - how can you guarantee that your child is never going to be at risk, whilst wandering around? It only takes a second for something to go wrong - your attention could be distracted (someone drops a plate, you knock over your drink, a fire engine stops outside the restaurant), and in that moment while you are distracted, your child trips up a waiter carrying something scalding hot, which spills over your child, and/or the waiter and/or someone else in the restaurant - how would you feel then? And who would be responsible?

And a second point - the longer you allow your child to carry on thinking it is OK to wander around in a restaurant, talking to other diners, the more you reinforce that behaviour, and the harder it will be to teach the child that, actually, this is not the societal norm, and they should stay at their own table.

FreudiansSlipper - I too would probably be fine if a child wandered over and said hello, and I would have a brief, cheerful chat with them - but I would be far less understanding and happy if that child spent the whole time there trying to talk to me, and their parents did nothing to get their child to go back to their own table and behave. It is a matter of balance.

MsBella's child's extra freedom could well be at the expense of other diners in the restaurant, and could also be putting her child and others at risk if a waiter trips over them. She and her child have every right to have a pleasant meal in a restaurant, but so do the other diners, and it sounds to me as if MsBella's child's fun is her sole concern, and she has none for other diners - that is out of balance.

And I am imagining being at a restaurant when a group of parents all of whom share MsBella's views (as she says all her friends do) come in to eat. Presumeably then all the children are wandering around, bothering other diners, and getting underfoot - which doesn't sound like my idea of a pleasant meal for anyone else in the restaurant!

Once out with an ex years ago, a kid was running around the restaurant. I wasn't too bothered but ex timed suddenly backing up his chair with the kid being there. Kid shouldn't have been there.

Maybe just maybe the places where MsBella goes this is the norm, is where is go maybe MsBella is always watching her child and knows when they may annoy or get it the way of staff/other customers and does something about it and maybe other people are not as judgemental as so many on here and could not give a toss if a child walks over to them and has a little chat

So you have pulled me up as i tend to think along the same lines as MsBella i know i am aware enough to see that my ds is not getting in the way of staff and not being annoying to others but ignored the personal nasty attacks on MsBella am I bad mother too, one who is going to have trouble when ds is a teenager and I have a brat

Ds and his little friends were all given cookies when we left the restaurant yesterday we are always welcome and they are always made a fuss of because they are well behaved

Forgetting the social norm of it or not (its not in my opinion but anyway) Why would people be happy talking to complete strangers and worse taking food from them? What message does this send?

And before we get the answer "Well its okay if I can see them" You still have no control over what is being said or what is being given. Thats dangerous in my view.

The taking food is odd I have to say.

My point is this. I have a dog which I love very very much. However, I do understand that not everyone loves him like I do. Therefore, I would not expect people to put up with him bothering them. IMHO it is the same with children. When my kids were small I used to try to remember that not everyone else loved them like me. I have no problem with a child coming over for a little chat but parents sit there watching them wander around etc etc. That really bothers me.

Also, I do not compare children to adults. They simply are not. IMO I was a parent to my kids not their friend. Now my son is 19 we are friends in a kind of way but I am still his parent - he has plenty of friends of his own, he needs me to be his mum.

MsBella - why would you never use a babysitter. Have you had a bad experience. Dont you ever go anywhere without your children. When my kids were little they used to love it when the babysitter came! Infact, we are still in contact with one of our past babysitters - she is now 37!

My 2 are not well behaved in restaurants. Well they are not naughty, not running around. But they are not that good. They are fine in say Harvester. But take them to a posh member only club for a easter roast and they had to be reminded constantly, best behaviour, sit nicely etc. Was painful.
I thought they would have got it by now and the training would have been finished, but clearly not.

There is a difference between not being behaved and not being parented. I am constantly telling my kids to remember there manners when they are in the wrong mood but I would never give up on the idea and let them run riot.

I was in a supermarket the other day and down the aisle there were two kids and a mum. The kids were running riot picking up stuff off the toy section and trying to dump it in the trolley or open them up. The "parent" was ignoring them and just dumping the stuff back out the trolley onto any old shelf. My Ds went over and picked something up and was reminded straight away we can look but we don't touch.

An old dear came over and said "can't you teach her down there to tell her kids that, no wonder yours is so well behaved" (he can re a little aid at times though) I smiled, thanked her and then buggered off out the way before the other parent that had heard this tried to start a row.

Kids have to be taught the right way, its that simple.

Whatever terms I used myself, I felt offended when you referred to my DD as 'your SN kid'.

Well, fanjo, think about it. I feel pretty offended when you jump on me for using exactly the same phrasing that you use yourself.

Your point seems to be that it is ok for you and others who are agreeing with you on your threads to use it, but because we disagree about another issue, it is suddenly offensive, in an attempt to discredit my opinion.

Any time you want to apologize...

brdgrl

I know others have used the term a lot and I know that your argument is in the context of a heated debate so there's more to it that just the definition of the terms.

I just wanted to highlight the fact that in most ways my DDs are Neurotypical in that their brains perform the vast majority of functions in the same way as everybody else's. They do however have some slight differences which have a great impact on their everyday lives. Those small differences cause them to have additional needs but don't define them as a whole.

My children aren't completely NT but they are mostly NT. If you want to describe a child they are either NT (indicating that they have no additional needs) or they are children who have additional needs, i.e. needs on top of those they have in common with others.

NT isn't the opposite of SN or AN. Neurotypical describes the child. AN or SN describes something the child has.

I'm not arguing with anything anyone has said here. I just think it's important to clarify how the two terms differ so that progress can be made in how society in general views additional needs.

Do feel free to stop harassing me in a frankly slightly worrying manner any time.

Clearly no one means offense by what has been said so why not all chill and carry on a conversation?

Fanjo... I think you're doing a little harrassing of your own and you should stop it.

I understood what brdgrl meant and the phrase is used all the time. It isn't meant as an insult and if you've used "SN kid" at any point yourself you have no basis for complaint. There are children with special needs in many families and, baring outright insults, nobody could keep up with the myriad terms that people don't personally 'like'.

People don't like loud noises, they don't like being impacted by anybody or anything when they're out. That's the way it is. It doesn't matter whether a child has special needs or not - if its making a noise it will attract attention. If the parent of the child making noise fails to do something to stop it then people will glare. Parents have the responsibility for that, special needs notwithstanding. I can understand that a parent can get caught out by a child bolting the first time but if they know the child has a tendency to that then they have the power to stop it happening from then on.

I can see that if a child has special needs, a parent can be very sensitive to perceives glares and stares but really, we're all just trying to do our best by our children and I think that as long as people can see that we're not idly allowing the child to run amok, they're tolerant, that doesn't mean they have to like or appreciate a disruption to their occasion.

I try not to use "SN kid" but if I do its a slip. If others use it but are being kindly I let it go.

But she was arguing with me and said "its not all about your SN kid" which I found pejorative and said so.

Cue endless ranting last night..when I was asleep. .and this morning..and demanding an apology.

Shocking way to carry on tbh.

I am doing no harassing.

I said it ONCE to her and she has been ranting ever since.

Since then I have told her to leave me alone.

That is not harassment in any way.

OMG, there are some very perfect parents on this thread.

Bella I wouldn't object to you or your dc in a restaurant and my kids behave themselves really well. It is not for me to judge other parents when I know I am not perfect myself.
I also don't speak for other parents as I don't have a crystal ball and know what they are thinking.
"People don't like" "Society expects", speak for yourself if you have anything to say.

I dont mind kids in passing saying hello but dont let them over to me by themselves.I dont allow my kids to do it cause i know how annoying it is when kids do it to you.

Its not about perfect parenting its about commonsence which by reading some posts some people have left it behind along with their manners.

I am shocked that you think I'm 'getting ratty' on my thread, I'm really not! :S