To think that if you will not even look look at this pie chart regarding the welfare spend from last year you have no right to comment?

[MadameDefarge]

THE FACTS

I will now try and find a breakdown of figures of those on long term benefit JSA/IB etc.

Then perhaps we could all have a reasonable discussion.

^Yes most of the welfare budget goes on OAPs. Most of the healthcare budget also goes on OAPs.

However, OAPs and those coming to OAP age soon (baby boomers) form the largest voting blocks, so we cannot possibly cut any of their perks, much better to target the young and the vulnerable of working age.^

Would be interesting to have another pie chart showing how much money each group has contributed through taxes over their lifetime before making snippy comments implying the elderly are a burden on the system.

The future really concerns me. I have begun to behave like an ostrich, and take one day at a time. I cannot bear to think of what my future holds for me in 20 years time, but I am worried it will be poverty stricken, and a life of working until I drop dead at work for the bare basics in life.

Some well off pensioners give their State Pension to charity - that seems fair enough.

My DF and PIL are in very different positions financially... PIL definitely don't need winter fuel payment as they are very well off, (houses in two countries) whereas my DF does.

I can't see why it can't be means tested, and PIL would say the same.

The point is that those who are in receipt of benefits are the majority of the population. The benefit scroungers are an 0.0 something percent of the unemployment support budget. 90% of people on JSA are back in employment within 12 months.

Is there any particular reason pensioners couldn't be assessed as a one off (to prevent the worry of being assessed differently in the future and losing out) and be entitled to the same benefits as everyone else? Or is that a huge vote loser?

It just seems that those pensioners who do have their own ability to finance their retirement wouldn't be eligable - it's harsh given how it was originally sold to a generation, but lets face it things haven't really panned out have they?

Also, DLA is slowly being extended into the over 65s instead of Attendance Allowance.

This means the number of people claiming DLA has been increasing. But when you look at the combined figure of DLA + AA, the numbers have stayed roughly in line with the demographics.

(Which presumably means DLA is still hugely underclaimed, despite the campaigns by eg cancer charities to encourage take up.)

That pie chart doesn't include a whole host of things like CTC, WTC, child benefit, pension credit etc. I would want to see figures for those before I could have an informed discussion about welfare.

Would be interesting to have another pie chart showing how much money each group has contributed through taxes over their lifetime before making snippy comments implying the elderly are a burden on the system.

Not a pie chart but with reference to baby boomers heres the statistics you are looking for...

www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/mar/15/babyboomers-welfare-politics-tax

They are on track to take out well over double their lifetime tax contribution. Yet try and point out the facts to them and they come out with vague statements of entitlement "i worked hard for this". "Things were hard in my day".

And looking at welfare spending doesn't even include the vast wealth transfers to the old caused by spiraling house prices etc.

And while we are at it, I am unemployed but have paid taxes for thirty years and NI. am I not entitled to the insurance payment due when I am in need? The insurance payment demanded by the govt to cover those costs?

fair, I have now posted one that does.

Yeap, vile leeches these old people , should be euthanised,
That's the solution. FFS.

Forgive me for interjecting, but BeeWi- there is a poster (who has been here for about 7 years) named BIWI (pronounced Beewee). Your name is incredibly confusing!

I heard a suggestion somewhere on here that WFA could be means tested by only giving it to those pensioners who are receiving pension credit.

Some pensioners are on a very very low pension, but are a few pounds or even pence over the threshold for pension credit. I don't agree it is fair to means test by only giving WFA to those in receipt of pension credit, but I agree that if we are all in it together, then this should, where necessary, involve pensioners too.

So working tax, child tax and child benefit make up 20%

So why are they just left out of the other one?

Flawed crap.

Gizza- your Dad's bus pass isn't costing the tax payer anything then,he can sleep easy in his bed. My MIL on the other hand (who has more money than me)uses hers to travel with her sister (who also has a free bus pass) over 100 miles return to return something to a shop which cost about £4......

Awomansworth, so your PILs then presumably either don't claim the winter fuel allowance/give it to charity?

Maybe the government should stop wasting our taxes on Trident missiles? Then there'd be plenty for all the pensioners and everyone else.

Free bus passes could go for a start. Also winter fuel allowance (means tested?).

Interesting pie chart. Thanks for the link.

Also, 12 billion on working tax credit? That's not really benefit, that's a state subsidy for private employers who don't pay a living wage.

Madame do you have figures for overall government spend, eg welfare, defence, health service, judicial system/police, admin and tax collection, and lots of other areas I can't think of?

The general point is that the majority of the welfare budget does not go to scroungers.