To think Andrew Wakefield has blood on his hands for causing so much distrust over the MMR?

[chicaguapa]

That's it really. He's caused so much damage with his stupid little study. It was years ago, he was struck off, the study was discredited, but people still don't get the MMR because of it.

I really don't believe GPs promote vaccination for money. But they are taught that vaccination should never be questioned. However, I personally know of a GP who didn't give her child the MMR.

Vitamin A treatment for measles is recommended by WHO - it's known to reduce mortality in people who are vitamin A deficient. Being vitamin A deficient is a real risk factor for a severe measles infection.

macdoodle - I would be interested to hear why you thought vaccinating your babies against rubella was in their best interest.

It's been an interesting way to spend Saturday night, but I'm afraid I have to go and get my mum into bed now, so I'm not ignoring anybody if I don't reply.

Goodnight.

I haven't read the whole thread as it would just raise my BP, but

YANBU

Wakefield: for carrying out piss poor research to promote his own self-interest
The editors and reviewers of Lancet: for not doing their job
The media: for taking the easy option of making money by scaring people with lies
The parents who do not vaccinate against medical advice: for not living in the age of reason

Interesting read saintly, thank you. It only confirms my fears though and I feel I made the right decision in delaying the mmr for my children until I was as sure as I could be that there development was ok and they were bigger and stronger to deal with the vaccine. I'm still annoyed that my choice to give single vaccines has been taken away from me though. I really think that if parents had this choice, then more children would be protected.

cote, your attitude strikes me as incredibly selfish and irresponsible. You may regard Rubella as "one of the most benign" diseases known to man and take a cavalier attitude towards your dc contracting it, but it can have very serious consequences for other people - pregnant women, for starters.

CoteDAzur have you read 'The truth About Vaccines' by Dr Richard Halvorsen? Its really good and its got much of the stuff you've said in it. Rubella totally pointless in young children. As for Mumps, I'll get DS tested for immunity too before he's 10.

Fairy - I agree with you about choice (and for the baby jabs as well - ridiculous that you can't get a single tetanus for example).

currentbuns - since vaccinating is an invasive procedure then it should be done first and foremost in the interests of the individual having it. How is it irresponsible not to protect the interests of your own child first?

Everyone does what is first in the interest of their child and I defy you to believe otherwise.

Vaccinated children don't get lifetime immunity and as a consequence mumps and rubella are being pushed into the very age groups where they will cause the most damage.

Haven't read the whole thread as its quite long. But I do think YANBU op, however my blame is mainly at the press, they were the ones that printed in big letters that MMR causes autism.

How about if your ds passes his mild case of rubella on to his pregnant teacher/sister/family friend with serious consequences for their unborn child, cote?

This is rather the point of aiming for herd immunity.

She doesnt give a shit, she said so.

But people who vaccinate for herd immunity assume their child won't be adversely affected by the vaccine. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.

I agree that many parents only decide not to because they know most do so will benefit from herd immunity. If nobody had it the diseases would be rife I had the MMR for all mine as saw no reason the docs would lie, the same docs I trusted to treat my DC for other issues, operations etc.

No assuming here.

We made a considered judgment based on the best information available, with due consideration to the fact that not immunising, given no obvious counter-indication, & relying on others doing so, would be an act of selfish twattery.

Well good for you. But let me assure you that as the parent of a severely disabled child, it is not easy and the pillars of the community who think not vaccinating is 'selfish twattery' certainly aren't knocking on your door offering solutions if you have a child who at 11 is running in front of cars and trying to escape from windows as well as not being able to dress herself or anything else or even talk. So you see I really can't take chances with the other two - I am a lone parent.

Neither DS or DD had the MMR. Both have had single vaccines for Rubella and Measles.
When Ds reaches puberty he will have the MMR if he hasn't had wild mumps by then...

Single vaccines cost us an arm and a leg but we were not prepared to leave either child unvaccinated against measles and we couldn't access single measles unless they had been given the rubella vaccine first.

Why no MMR? There is a history of autism on both sides of the family. When DS was coming up to needing his MMR we were very uncertain as to what to do. DH did a lot of reading. I asked for advice from my HV and my GP. Both told me I was hysterical and jumping on a bandwagon and that if they said it was safe it was safe and why was I worrying my little head about it........

So, I rang a private clinic. I spoke to the DR there. He called me back free of charge and spent ages listening to me and talking me through the options. He personally didn't place much store in Wakefield but he felt the MMR was not right for such young children for a number of reasons. He then refused to let me make an appointment...... I had to go away and think very long and hard.

I felt listened to. I felt my worries as a parent were taken seriously. DS had single vaccines and we followed suit with DD.

DS went on to develop an ASC anyway and I'm not overly sure about DD!
I do not for one minute regret my decision. My children are not unvaccinated. I would do it again tomorrow given the level of info I had then. Now I'm not so sure.

If Wakefield has blood on his hands then so do the press and the members of the medical profession that refused to take the concerns of parents seriously.

It is very rude to call people who have concerns about vaccination 'tin hat wearers

Well, it would be if that's what I actually said. Except it wasn't

I still don't know what a "legitimate reason" would be Oooh - advice from a doctor not to?

Jeeze.

We certainly didn't assume that there was no risk in vaccinating our daughters. We felt that the risk of the illnesses far outweighed the tiny risk of vaccination.

I do not understand how any supposedly loving parent can willingly risk exposing their child to a dangerous illness when there is an effective vaccine. Obviously there is a small number of children who cannot be vaccinated. I support those parents in their desire to protect their children by vaccinating mine.

Neverput - so if you want to get single measles vaccine, you have to have rubella first? I want dd to have rubella soon anyway but I didn't know that.

The thing is Northernlurker that the risk of vaccinating one child might be tiny while the risk of vaccinating another is much higher. The risk isn't uniform across the board.

This isn't supposed to be a crucify the non-vac parents thread. If you have looked into it, made a judgement call for your DC based on your own research fair enough. We can't hold the MMR hysteria responsible for that.

I'm just talking about the numbers of people who didn't do any research, but read headlines, had the fear of god put into them and didn't vaccinate. And how the legacy of the study and how the media picked up on it still clearly with us.

Yes I know. That's why everybody who can vaccinate should do so. The problem is some parents do hugely over-estimate the risk of vaccinations - with disastrous consequences.