To think Andrew Wakefield has blood on his hands for causing so much distrust over the MMR?

[chicaguapa]

That's it really. He's caused so much damage with his stupid little study. It was years ago, he was struck off, the study was discredited, but people still don't get the MMR because of it.

Here some stats on recent measles outbreaks and death rates

Swansea 2013 - 541 to date (I think it's around 600 now)
Manchester 2012 - 111
Merseyside Jan 2012-Feb 2013- 622
Dublin 1999-2000 - 1,200 with three deaths

The death rate for measles is suppose to be around 1 in 1000

Source

I am scum whois? Well fuck you, actually.
My friend has no arms because the medical profession told her mother that Thalidomide was safe. Some people are wary of govt propaganda and genuinely worry about doing the right thing, or knowing what the right thing is.

As I said, saintly, we won't agree on this.

I'm sorry for all of those with these terrible stories on both sides. But the evidence has been clear and communicated repeatedly for years. In favour of vaccinating. This thread shows that some people still prefer to listen scare mongering and anecdote. I am sorry but the responsibility lies on their shoulders as well.

Can I ask a stupid question?

If the worry is that the mmr causes regression, does that mean after a certain age that would no longer be an issue?

Nobody has the right to judge another parent for trying to make the right decision for their child (who can't give their consent to the vaccination!) - whatever you choose there is no absolute peace of mind. As Dilemma says, discussion has become impossible about this.

My mum wanted to vaccinate me against measles but was told by other members of the family that they would hold her responsible if I had a bad reaction to it. So she ended up taking me to have it in secret. No parent should have to put up with abuse about choice in this matter.

poppy - I understand where you are coming from. My Aunty has damaged eye sight from having had measles as a baby. My decision regarding my own children is still hard to make.

What don't we agree on poppy? Are you saying regressions can never be environmentally triggered? The doctors/researchers we have spoken to over the years don't seem to have shared that point of view.

The way I see it we're both trying to avoid severe disability taking into account relevant factors in our own families.

I don't blame Wakefield, he did a small study that suggested that further research is needed. I blame the media who ran away with the story. I Also blame the government who have taken away the option of receiving single jabs, either on the nhs or privately. I also don't like the way that they stopped parents who thought there was a link claiming legal aid, therefore making it impossible to there cases to court along with the way all the nhs information is all one sided. It makes me suspicious. Also why did Japan stop the mmr? I know they brought it back again but surely some research made them stop the mmr in the first place?

Not a stupid question Maytheodds.

I went to one research conference where the model presented was - shall we say - time sensitive. It was a slightly complicated model. Maternal infection 'priming' the resulting baby to a second 'hit' from either a natural or vaccine virus at a certain sensitive timeframe. IIRC (and it was a few years ago), the researcher did say avoiding triggers at the critical time might result in typical development.

But there are many different models and many different autisms. And a regression in an older child wouldn't be dxed as autism.

Saintly, we won't agree that I believe vaccination to be safe and the right choice, and you don't. You have your reasons and I have mine, both seem valid to us. We're just going around in circles.

WRT disability in my family, none of it was preventable.

It's interesting that parents are under the impression that if you get measles now treatment is likely to be better. There are no treatments for measles. Why would they have bothered to develop effective vaccines for all these diseases. We have forgotten in a matter of two generations just how serious they are.
My DS ended up in hospital with chicken pox. He had suspected meningitis a known complication of the infection. We had a very frightening 24 hours. As a healthcare professional I was racked with guilt for underestimating his condition. And brushing off the risks associated with the disease.
It is unfortunate that the media misrepresent results from scientific studies. My DH who is from a non scientific background was uncertain about MMR. I found the most effective way to explain the risk to him was to to use the odds since he is a passionate National Hunt fan. Death from measles 1/2000 risk of serious side effect from mmr1/1000000.

It makes sense for the communicated advice to be in favour of vaccination, since the government has the entire population to think about, including the old, immunodepressed, etc and other factors in their calculation like cost and benefit analyses.

As a parent, I do what is best for my child. Period.

What is best for my DD is to have rubella in her own time. She will be tested before she turns 18, whereupon she can have the vaccine if she is not already immune.

DS had rubella but even if he is not immune, that's ok. I don't see the point of vaccinating a boy against one of the mildest diseases known to man. He will be tested for mumps when he starts primary school (age 6). If he is not immune, he can have the vaccine at that point.

Both DC have had measles single vaccines.

They have not had MMR because I don't see why my babies need to take even the smallest risk if it is not absolutely necessary.

If anyone would like to argue that the above is not in the best interest of my DC, I'd love to hear her reasoning.

I'd be a lot happier to believe the doctors that the MMR is safe, if I knew that they weren't being incentivised to vaccinate children. Once money is involved, objectivity flies out of the window.

I believe in immunisation, and both my DC had all their jabs as they were supposed to. But DS2 had a really severe reaction to his first MMR and so I didn't take him for his second for several years. We were really pressured into having the booster jab despite our concerns.

Fairy - Japan stopped it because it was causing too many cases of aseptic meningitis (that brand was withdrawn - the UK was a bit late removing it

To be fair to the govt way back in 2001 I wrote to them and asked why they weren't allowing single vaccines. They wrote back and said they were but that the licences had lapsed and the pharmaceutical companies had chosen not to re-apply for licences for the monovalents. They also said if a company did apply for a product to be licensed they would process it in the usual way.

I have no idea whether any company did try and get something licensed or not.

Just to add I am fully aware that some children should avoid vaccination. My sister was not given whooping cough as a result of medical advice at the time. Measles wasn't available at that time.

Umm I'm a GP, both of my DD's had the MMR without hesitation. Or am I not acting in my DD's best interests? Odd impression indeed.

Poppy - I vaccinated my child when I thought I had a child at average risk. So it's a bit daft to say I don't believe vaccination to be safe and right. I obviously thought it safe enough for my PFB.

A GP who has experience of loosing a young patient to complications arising from a 'common' childhood illness needs no financial incentive to promote vaccination. Particularly measles for which they can do nothing.
Prevention is the most effective form of medicine and the most satisfying.

But you don't believe it to be safe for your other children, saintly, so obviously your views have changed.

"There are no treatments for measles"

That's OK, though, since it is from the complications that death and disability arises and there are treatments for those complications.

This is why the rate of death and disability from measles in third world countries is very different than the rate in first world countries.

Fairy more about the Urabe/Japan stuff here

definitely

I had measles quite badly at age three. It wasn't thought to be a life threatening disease then. A lot of children got measles and made a full recovery. My opinion is that there has been a lot of scaremongering re measles.