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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this is another stupid example of how religion has a crazy amount of influence in everyone's eyes?

139 replies

Thistledew · 05/04/2013 15:34

DP and I are atheist. We are having a civil wedding ceremony. The rules of a civil ceremony are that we are not allowed to have any religious references as part of the ceremony.

One of my favourite pieces of music of all time, by my favourite composer Handel is a piece that he wrote for the Coronation of King George I .

I have just had a call from our Registry Office to say that just because this piece of music mentions the words 'priest' 'god' 'amen' and 'hallelujah' I am not allowed to have it played at my wedding ceremony.

AIBU to think that if it were not for the stupid influence that religion has in our society, this piece of music would be judged solely on its artistic merit and the lyrics would have no more significance than Ba Ba Blacksheep?

FYI the lyrics in full are:

Zadok the priest,
And Nathan the Prophet,
Anointed Soloman, King.

And all the people
Rejoiced.

And all the people (Alleluia)
Rejoiced, and said
God save the King!
Long Live the King!
God Save the King
May the king live forever,
Alleluia, Alleluia, Amen.
Amen, Amen, Amen, Alleluia Amen.

God save the king,
long live the king,
may the king live forever,
amen amen alleluia alleluia amen,
Amen, May the king live,
may the king live,
forever, forever forever,
Alleluia Amen, Amen.
Alleluia Alleluia Amen.
Amen Amen, Amen Amen,
Alleluia Amen.

Long live the king,
God save the king,
long live the king,
may the king live,
may the kinge live,
forever, forever, alleluia alleluia amen,
amen, amen, amen alleluia amen,

Alleluia, alle amen, alleluia!

OP posts:
PenelopePortrait · 05/04/2013 16:06

Just choose something else. It's just a piece of music, it's really not worth getting disproportionately angry and letting it spoil your day.

If you want a civil service then you have to abide by the rules. Like if you wanted a church service you would have to abide by their rules.

Original poster
Thistledew · 05/04/2013 16:06

Bridsgottafly - I don't disagree with you. My own personal view is that there is quite a lot that can be taken from the teachings of various religions, but I would not be married by a religious ceremony because I do not hold a belief in a god that is defined by any religion. I don't see why this should stop me enjoying and using any bit of music or poetry that I want, just because other people hold it to have a more significant meaning than I do.

OP posts:
stressyBessy22 · 05/04/2013 16:08

your argument makes no sense!! the music is inspitred by a love of god.

Original poster
Thistledew · 05/04/2013 16:09

It's so fucking ridiculous that I could go along to any church and pay lip service to pretend to follow the beliefs of what ever religion is being preached, and then have any music that I wanted played at my ceremony, but because I actually want to be honest about my beliefs, the people in charge of those religions get to dictate to me what music I can (or rather cannot) play.

OP posts:
Original poster
Thistledew · 05/04/2013 16:11

stressyBessy22 - So? A lot of beautiful Chinese and Japanese art features pictures of dragons. If I don't believe that they ever existed, does that mean I can't appreciate them as works of art?

OP posts:
MissAnnersley · 05/04/2013 16:11

'I don't see why this should stop me enjoying and using any bit of music or poetry that I want, just because other people hold it to have a more significant meaning than I do.'

Not really Thistledew. The text is lifted directly from the Bible. By its very definition it is a religious piece.

stressyBessy22 · 05/04/2013 16:11

I thought it was the registry office dictating?

MissAnnersley · 05/04/2013 16:12

And nobody is stopping you from enjoying anything. They are stopping your from using a religious piece of music during a civil service.

Trills · 05/04/2013 16:13

Personally I think that the only legally-recognised marriages should be civil marriages (or even call them civil partnerships) and that they should be a quick paper-signing word-speaking affair, and then everyone can go celebrate and make vows and sing songs and have readings and play music anywhere that they like with any combination of religious or non-religious elements.

LaurieFairyCake · 05/04/2013 16:13

The people in charge of those religions are NOT doing this.

The state IS as this is a legal ceremony. It's the states choice to do this.

You've got it the wrong way round Smile

squeakytoy · 05/04/2013 16:14

yabu. You cant have music with religious content at a register office. It is as simple as that.

soverylucky · 05/04/2013 16:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feminine · 05/04/2013 16:19

YABU really.

You have chosen a non-religious ceremony.Confused

You can't have your cake and eat it! :)

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo · 05/04/2013 16:19

The registrar is coming to us (4 weeks tomorrow!) and I we selected thank god I found you for our register signing, and our registrar hasnt mentioned it...

AKissIsNotAContract · 05/04/2013 16:20

your argument makes no sense!! the music is inspired by a love of god.

So was Candi Staton's 'You got the love' but my friend was still allowed it at her civil wedding.

YANBU OP.

AuroraAlfresco · 05/04/2013 16:20

Wow, that's crazy. I had no idea "religious" music was banned. Surely the legal vows and bits the registrar says are the only bits that really matter?

I mean, if you're atheist (as am I) the words are entirely meaningless. Religion is meaningless - i.e. not based on anything real and true. So you should be able to use the fecking music in whatever way you want.

YANBU Shock

JackieTheFart · 05/04/2013 16:20

YABU. Get married in church if it is more important to have that music than not.

Why not just use their own music and have that particular piece played at your reception?

cantspel · 05/04/2013 16:22

why is it religions fault that the state dictates that you cannot have religious music at a civil wedding?

And as Handel has set the gospel to music in that piece how can you try to argue it is is not a religious?

LeeCoakley · 05/04/2013 16:22

Even a vicar would veto an inappropriate choice of hymn though. I still stand by my earlier comment that a piece written to anoint a new King and head of the Church of England doesn't seem right for a wedding ceremony.

And agree with trills on everyone having a civil ceremony then having personalised add-ons.

AuroraAlfresco · 05/04/2013 16:23

But getting married in church would be totally hypocritical of the OP.

You don't have to have faith in order to appreciate beautiful music that happens to have references to God.

Think the reg office's rules are bloody discriminatory tbh.

MissAnnersley · 05/04/2013 16:23

Once again, the actual text was taken directly from the Bible. Not inspired by but taken from.

Candi Staton's were not.

BackforGood · 05/04/2013 16:24

YABU to say it's not a religious piece of music.

I think the fact that if you choose to have a civil ceremony, you ca't have any religious music or reading is odd and, indeed wrong. However, that's a state / civil rule I would have thought, not a religious one.

GraceSpeaker · 05/04/2013 16:24

YABU

I'm not sure your heading makes sense - this particular piece of music is extremely religious. Unfortunately, it's also fabulous and I can completely understand why you'd want it at your wedding. However, the fact remains that it is, essentially, a hymn. Not sure you can argue Handel would have composed the same piece without the religious influence (although he might have composed something just as good...). The fact that you're allowed to have a civil wedding is evidence that religion's influence in this country has dwindled to some extent since, for example, Handel's time (hooray!).

Plenty of other amazing music out there - have something from Star Wars. Grin

soverylucky · 05/04/2013 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SocialGrace · 05/04/2013 16:25

The rules are very vexing, and I would like to see the law changed; I don't think that anyone attending a civil ceremony would be hoodwinked into thinking that it was a religious one, just because a particular piece of classical music is played.

This rule was one of the reasons that led us, as an agnostic / atheist couple, to get married in Church rather than a registry office.

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