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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be dreading the grand national on Saturday?

292 replies

annabanana84 · 03/04/2013 15:41

once again the grand national has come around, and to say I despise it is an understatement. The fact that people race these poor horses for entertainment and money really defies belief. The way those poor horses get whipped, exhausted and there is not a year goes by that we hear of deaths or the animals having to be put to sleep because of them breaking their necks, backs, or other injuries. I so dread it. You can't even get away from hearing about the deaths because it's broadcast on every news programme.

OP posts:
jennywren45 · 05/04/2013 08:13

I dunno saint , I much prefer my horses and dogs to many humans.

Philpott, for one. Any animals life is worth more than that slime's.

countrykitten · 05/04/2013 08:32

Can I just second what jennywren said? Couldn't agree more.

saintmerryweather · 05/04/2013 08:33

Well thats true jenny on an individual level id save my dog from a burning house before some random stranger, but generally speaking id far rather horses and mules be left behind at dunkirk than men, which is what my post was about that somebody quoted when i said animal aid are a bunch of nutjobs with skewed priorities

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn · 05/04/2013 08:38

The reason why people ask if other posters have experience of horses/ride etc is because they are very complex creatures. Many non-horsey people assume that we are cruel and callous to put down a horse with a broken leg. The fact is that assumption couldn't be further from the truth. If you understand the complex nature of a horse's leg and also its psychology, you soon realise that there is actually not a lot you can do for a catastrophic fracture.

Firstly, when a horse breaks a bone it tends to splinter, this makes it almost impossible to pin back together.

Secondly, you can't put a horse's leg in a cast - they are "flight" animals (it is their nature to run from danger not fight) and they rely on their legs to survive. They don't understand that they need to keep still and their legs carry so much weight that they will end up causing more damage.

Thirdly, even when you can operate to pin a leg back together, horse's are very prone to shock which can kill them. They also risk infection (from open fractures) and an ailment called Laminitis. Laminitis often occurs in the non-injured legs because the horse has transferred the extra weight, putting more strain on the limbs. Laminitis is basically a disruption to the blood flow in the feet: as the blood flow lessens, the hoof begins to die. It is extremely painful and non-curable.

Of course some fractures can be repaired, and everything is done to save a horse with these injuries, but unfortunately it is often kinder to out them down to prevent further suffering.

ParadiseChick · 05/04/2013 08:47

Horses aren't people

catgirl1976 · 05/04/2013 08:53

They are nicer than most people :)

jennywren45 · 05/04/2013 08:59

Yep. Last time I checked my horses hadn't burnt their offspring to death or beaten up another horse because it was the wrong colour.

In my experience most horses out class most people most of the time.

countrykitten · 05/04/2013 09:06

And dogs too even though I know this thread is not about dogs but my gang rock!

catgirl1976 · 05/04/2013 09:07

Yup - dogs are also generally nicer than people Grin

countrykitten · 05/04/2013 09:09

Frankelly is talking much sense about broken legs. A friend lost her lad last year when another horse gave him a sadly very well aimed boot in the leg and he went down. The vet arrived and looked at him for about a minute before getting his needle and syringe out. It was clear that nothing could be done and he was suffering. In such cases it is kindest and I know that a lot of non horsey people just don't get that.

MandragoraWurzelstock · 05/04/2013 09:21

Part of what I hate about it is the terrible names. I mean is it deliberate misspelling or accidental? Sea the stars?

MandragoraWurzelstock · 05/04/2013 09:27

I think an important difference with animals being slaughtered for food or kept cruelly or whatever, and racing, is that only one of these things is seen as entertainment.

No one would want to go and stand in an abattoir for fun. But people flock to watch the carnage at the GN. How do you reconcile that?

catgirl1976 · 05/04/2013 09:29

They don't go to watch horses die Confused

When that happens it's a horrible accident, not something you want to happen and certainly not something you go to see

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn · 05/04/2013 09:42

Sea The Stars was so named because his mother was called Urban Sea. I agree that some have daft named, but many have well thought out and meaningful (to the owner) names.

Twattybollocks · 05/04/2013 09:54

If you have anything to do with horses then you know that asking a horse to run and jump is not cruel in the sense that you are forcing them to do something they would not naturally do, or that they do not enjoy doing, they run and jump as naturally as they breathe, eat and poo. Someone who doesn't have contact with horses may not realise this. The only problem I have with racing is what happens to ex racers and failed racers.

montysma1 · 05/04/2013 10:01

Philpot just got life for endangering his children pretty much because it suited him to do so and there was. He didn't mean to kill them either.

I haven't seen posts complaining about the euthenizing of seriously injured horses. They are questioning the right of owners to use them sports which are inherently dangerous and liable to lead to these injuries.

MandragoraWurzelstock · 05/04/2013 10:01

Catgirl, yes, I phrased that badly. It's seen as an unfortunate side effect of the sport though. And seems to happen every year recently. So it's kind of expected by many people...I personally assume there will be deaths this year too.

I can't see this level of risk as acceptable in the name of entertainment, is what I'm trying to say. It's all a bit Roman isn't it.

montysma1 · 05/04/2013 10:07

They arent just being asked to "run and jump". They are being asked to run to the point of collapse, jump over towering fences, trying to stay on their whilst being jostled by a large field of other stressed horses trying to do the same thing.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn · 05/04/2013 10:07

Is 0.3% a huge risk though?

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn · 05/04/2013 10:11

The horses are not stressed. A stressed horse runs flat out with no control, ears pinned flat back and eyes wide.

wonderingsoul · 05/04/2013 10:15

having lived in the horse racing town of the world. i see horses daily and have many friends who work with them and ride them.

horses are born to run, its in their genes. if they did not want to do something, they wont, no mater what you do.

they are also treated very well, id even go to say they are better treated then horses you see in farms etc.

if they did not like to run and race they simply wouldn't be race horses, yes its a shame when one falls and has to be put down, no one wish's it, it an unfourtant accident. you can not simply plaster a broken leg or neck in a horse. it is far kinder to put them down.

race horse have a very rich life and are looked after very well. you cant say the same for the chicken you just had for Sunday lunch though.

i prefer to watch flat racing, as the jumps do make me queasy but its not evil. race horse are made to jump, if they didnt want to .. they simply wouldnt. there is also strong rules on whipping and what is allowed, and if you break them there is big actions taken agasiunt the jokey.

catgirl1976 · 05/04/2013 10:25

It would be great to eliminate all risk but it simply isn't possible. Unless you ban racing all together.

But then you would have to look at the risk in all equestrian sports and logic would say, ban them too, the risk is too high.

And then surely the risk of just riding horses for pleasure - too high, ban it.

And the risk of keeping horses.

And then there are no horses at all.

Where there are cruel or unsafe practices I don't think anyone would argue not to do everything possible to eliminate these, and yes there are welfare issues in racing that need to be addressed, but these are not unique to racing and improved animal welfare across all sports, breeding, owning and farming is important and worth fighting for. But banning racing is not IMO the answer.

I will be watching the GN praying that all the horses get round safely and in tears if they don't and I would support anything that reduced the risk or improved welfare , but I accept you cannot remove all of the risk, because horses are, by thier nature, risky and fragile animals.

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn · 05/04/2013 10:31

wonderingsoul guess where I currently work Wink

montysma1 · 05/04/2013 10:58

horses are indeed fragile, thorougbreds inherently so and becoming more fragile and unhealthy due to inbreeding and the vast over production of foals every year in the hope of breeding a winner.

They may live in a guilded cage and have fancy names, but their lives arent great. Kept in most of the time, turning out would be too risky if they got injured and couldnt run, too much money at stake. As herbvivores designed for constant grazing of low calorific food, being fed food concentrates leads to ulcers (present in the vast majority of racehorses), joint problems from intensive training at too young an age, bleeding into the lungs, and heart failure (not heart attacks as such), which can occur in any horse due to disease, but in racehorses is generally due to the heart giving out as the chest cavity is too small to accomodate the expansion of the heart during intensive excercise.

Plenty of horses will refuse to run and jump. We just dont usually see them on racecourses. They will have been dispatched long before that, either put down (the lucky ones) or sold on to be tranported to foreign abbatoirs or to foreign tracks or into a spiral of neglect in unsuitable homes.

Some might go to the legendary beautiful retirement homes spouted about on here. The wastage in the industry is such that there would need to be a race horse retirement venue in every town, but I dont seem to have seen them.

The argument about whether we can justify "using" or keeping horses is a few thousand years too late. They are domesticated. Like it or not, they dont have free will, they are subject to the whim of humans. That means that we have a duty of care towards them, and that includes not knowingly putting them into dangerous situations.

Jump racing is dangerous, therefore participants ARE knowingly putting the animal into a dangerous situation.

JenaiMorris · 05/04/2013 10:59

The only problem I have with racing is what happens to ex racers and failed racers.

twatty I feel the same way about a lot of sports. The way children are built up and then spat out by football academies, young men having their heads knocked about in boxing rings.

Most sport is about money - big money. People and animals ares exploited. I suppose with racing the difference is that horses can't actually choose a career in racing but then I'm not sure 10yo children are in a position to understand what they're letting themselves in for, either.

I'm aware this is a slightly pointless observation of mine though - just because people are exploited in one sphere, doesn't lessen the wrongs of it happening in the other.

As you were... Grin