To be dreading the grand national on Saturday?

[annabanana84]

once again the grand national has come around, and to say I despise it is an understatement. The fact that people race these poor horses for entertainment and money really defies belief. The way those poor horses get whipped, exhausted and there is not a year goes by that we hear of deaths or the animals having to be put to sleep because of them breaking their necks, backs, or other injuries. I so dread it. You can't even get away from hearing about the deaths because it's broadcast on every news programme.

Monty come on tell us what you do with your horses?

I actually cant believe that people are comparing the philpott children to animals

I actually cant believe that people are comparing the philpott children to animals

Nobody did - go back and read the post properly.

JanaiMorris Most sport is about money - big money. People and animals ares exploited

I suggest you take yourself down to your local athletics track, cycling club, swimming club or pony club, where you will find a massive number of children and adults with no pretensions to other than being amateurs enjoying their sports, coached and organised by unpaid volunteers. This is the reality of most sport - what you see on tv is elite level only and the tip of a pyramid with a very wide base. Elite sport does tend to be more about money because its more expensive to run, but all those athletes competing will have ultimately come from grass roots level.

The way children are built up and then spat out by football academies, young men having their heads knocked about in boxing rings

Very few make it to the level of genuine Olympic contender. Most find they get something out of the journey. The main problem in athletics in the UK right now is that children are so inactive, they don't develop the requisite motor skills required to be reasonably athletic throughout their lives. While there might be wastage in the junior ranks, in the main it will have equipped those children with better motor skills and hopefully also a sense of determination to strive, in whatever field.

They may live in a guilded cage and have fancy names, but their lives arent great. Kept in most of the time, turning out would be too risky if they got injured

Come of it Monty, stop spreading ignorance. Most TB broodmares have a great life with turnout, the young racestock are turned out for 2 years in large natural herds (which is more than beef cattle get) and have a lovely adolescence. Racehorses are exercised 6 days a week and turned away for large periods of time, and many racehorse trainers do turn out. Which again is more than many livery yards do in winter. And indeed showjumping and dressage yards.

Plenty of horses will refuse to run and jump. We just dont usually see them on racecourses. They will have been dispatched long before that, either put down (the lucky ones) or sold on to be tranported to foreign abbatoirs or to foreign tracks or into a spiral of neglect in unsuitable homes

So exactly the same as might happen to any horse bred for riding then.

The wastage in the industry is such that there would need to be a race horse retirement venue in every town, but I dont seem to have seen them

I'm pretty sure that if every poster on this thread donated £50 or £100 to the Retraining of Racehorses Charity instead of salving their consciences due to a once a year tv event, they could make quite a difference. You of course will have done your part no doubt by buying an ex-racehorse off a trainer, as most of them will let them go very cheaply to a good home, and they are usually quite easy to ride, being traffic proof (I worked 5 summers in a row as a stable lass in racing during university holidays).

that includes not knowingly putting them into dangerous situations

Your average amateur riding going round a cross country course is far more dangerous.

Personally, I think encouraging the import of young over-worked dressage horses from the Continent with hocks that are sure to spavin is far worse. But my major animal concerns are live transportation of animals long distances to slaughter and halal killing.

I ride the non retired one Jenny. At no point did I say I disagreed with riding. Not once. As I have said over and over, if you cared to take the point, where I have a problem is with humans putting an animal into a situation which they know to be dangerous and then crying over the outcome.
There are accidents which are just that. And there are accidents caused by humans putting animals into dangerous situations as an entertainment/spectacle/gambling tool. Domesticated animals are reliant on humans, and the horse "loving" humans should be a acting in the animals best I interest. The Grand National is not in any horses best interest.

where I have a problem is with humans putting an animal into a situation which they know to be dangerous and then crying over the outcome

Well, strictly speaking, riding pretty much damages most horse's hocks and leads to arthritic changes, unless its very light and the rider is very light. I take it you ensure you weigh no more than the veterinary recommendation of 10% of the horse's weight yourself Montysma? Then again, theres some argument for working horses in the correct way leading to a better and more correct loading of joints by correction of bad habits, and that doing work with them in the early years not only strengthens joints and bones (if not overdone) but also motor skills.

My friend's horse was killed in the field a couple of weeks ago. True, if they had had a big luxuriant pasture, with more room and a stable herd, it may not have been galloping round the field and fatally injured itself.

I ride the non retired one Jenny

Wonderfully vague!

I was referring to racing horses, not broodmares. The fact that amatures indulge in the over breeding of unwanted ponies does not excuse the professionals for doing exactly the same thing.

I am not spreading disinformation, the racing industry does that.

For the record, I do contribute to ex racehorse charitys, I do temporary fostering for a greyhound rescue charity and suscribe to compassion in world farming. I don't have an ex racer, but have friends who do, and poor sad critters they were too. Inspite of having passed through some "reputable" hands.

Listing other types of animal cruelty does not excuse cruelty in equestrian sport, however much you want to dress it up.

Monty you can't say that your issue is with putting horses into dangerous situations but you are fine with other all types of equestrianism but jump racing

Jump racing is not the most dangerous so it just doesn't make sense

Cargirl, I didnt once say I was fine with other forms of equestrianism. Show me where that was? I dont like eventing, show jumping or dressage either. Where money or ego is involved the welfare of the animal will always be in question.

I have talked about jump racing because that is the topic of the thread.

What do you want me to say Jenny. We hack, we do a little schooling. We paddle on the beach. Thats it. They are novice rides, bomb proof with good manners, not terribly exciting. Which is everything I want them to be. So there you are, we are not super dooper eventers, and I am, shock , horror, a leisure rider. I have ridden since childhood, but would still quite happily call myself a novice with no aspiration to be anything more. Is that ok Jenny? Is that not horsey enough for you? Or am I just one of those ignorant novices that dont know horses? Strangely they have reached middle age and ripe old age in rude good health having cost me very little in vet fees over the years other than check ups.

I am very aware of my weight Jenny.

You ride yourself monty

So I assume you are fine with equestrianism because you partake in it

YY to being more concerned about halal 'slaughter' and long distance travelling for slaughter animals. Which is why I don't eat meat and don't support such a disgusting industry.

I am still very concerned over racing too and plenty of other cruelty issues but I can agree that it is perhaps one of the less pressing cruelty issues regarding animals that are out there in the wider scheme of things.

I just pray that they get round on Saturday and that no horse or jockey is hurt.

Non of my horses would be happy or fit doing what yours are doing, I assure you.

The old horses for courses is so very true.
I have warmbloods and ISH. See how far you get doing what you do with them.

Ooh Jenny - mine's warmblood, a Westphalian (pic of him on my profile) :)

Nice!! Reckon he'd want to hack and do a bit of light schooling? [shocked]

monty have you read the stats on the number of horses killed on the roads going on a hack? It far exceeds those dying on the track. I can't believe you could be so horribly, vilely cruel as to take your horse on a hack knowing it might die!

Where did I say I rode in traffic? We cross one road immediately outside the yard and then we are off road.

My posts are perfectly clear that I am referring to competitive equstrianism in general and high money ones in particular. I will give the benefit of the doubt that you are obtuse rather than dense.

Hacking and schooling, how very dare I? I prostrate myself before you and your warm bloods. I am simply not worthy.

One road! But you are deliberately putting your horse in danger for your sport! How could you!?

sobs

I dont know how I live with myself really. But don't sob on my behalf, save it for tomorrow.

Sprinter Sacre Wow! What a horse! The Frankel of the Jumps world

Oh god - me too. I cried last year {was it last year?} when 'According to Pete' died. He was featured earlier and they spoke to the family and everything and they just said 'they wanted him to get round safe, that was the main thing'. I know they didn't have to enter him, yes true, but l still felt very sorry for them as they seemed to really care about him and l felt so sorry mainly for the horse himself, he was a lovely character and his stable mate was waiting in vain back in his lonely paddock and
so

FrankellyMyDearIDontGiveADamn Fri 05-Apr-13 10:11:57

The horses are not stressed. A stressed horse runs flat out with no control, ears pinned flat back and eyes wide.

___

Like this?

No, that is not ears pinned flat back, that is what any horse does when it runs at speed.

Horses ears are extremely expressive and give you insight into his mood.

Oh, Ok. I wasn't sure what you meant. Someone once told me horses' ears point forward when they are running for fun.

I know nothing about horses.