To be dreading the grand national on Saturday?

[annabanana84]

once again the grand national has come around, and to say I despise it is an understatement. The fact that people race these poor horses for entertainment and money really defies belief. The way those poor horses get whipped, exhausted and there is not a year goes by that we hear of deaths or the animals having to be put to sleep because of them breaking their necks, backs, or other injuries. I so dread it. You can't even get away from hearing about the deaths because it's broadcast on every news programme.

Animal Aid are the nutjobs who i read a few years ago were bemoaning the fact that mules and horses were left behind at dunkirk and how tragic it was. never mind all the men left behind then eh?

I still dont have a problem with racing.

The gn fences haven't got lower at all. That is the point - they remain high to keep speeds down which makes it safer. My Dh works at the racecourse so I've just checked with him.

The main changes this year are:

1. Fence construction ? the frame of every single fence on the Grand National Course has been changed. 12 fences now have 'EasyFix' plastic cores in place of timber stakes, covered in natural spruce. The other four fences, open ditches, have had their timber frames replaced by natural birch. This followed a successful trial in December at the Becher Chase Day. Fence heights remain unchanged and the fences will look identical to previous years

1. Start ? the Grand National start has been moved forwards by 90 yards, away from the grandstands and crowds to help to create a calmer atmosphere. New BHA procedures are also intended to produce a cleaner start

1. Ground ? in the last two years, £250,000 has been spent on the watering system to produce the safest jumping ground possible

1. Landing areas ? levelling work has been conducted where necessary to ensure a flat and true landing zone for horses, including at Becher's Brook.

One area not changed is the maximum number of runners in the Grand National, which used to be significantly more than the 40 safety factor the race holds today. The BHA and Aintree reviewed every race since the course was remodelled and found simply no evidence that field size played a part in falls. Equally, maintaining the current height of the fences is considered important so as not to encourage greater speed around the course, which could create issues.

Info from BHA website, via DH, by the way

Hotel, they have also lowered fence 4 which had a higher than normal rate of fallers, to make it more consistent with the other fences. I will be interested if they water the ground to make it softer than 'Good'. Over half the fatalities have occurred on good ground, yet the last fatality on 'soft' ground as in 1954... something to be said for this? Speed is definately the factor and bigger fences will slow them down.

This sort of mass-herd-like hysteria online from posters who have probably never ridden a horse in their lives and know nothing about them, leaves me baffled. Its more about making the posters feel better about themselves, than animal welfare.

Heres some real animal welfare issues, which are around you every day and which you probably ignore - keeping medium and large sized dogs in small houses and giving them inadequate short walks as exercise; keeping cats, which are hunting animals, indoors; dumping older cats and dogs at the side of the road when you get a new pet; ripping up wild animals' habitats for new housing estates; keeping farm animals for slaughter when only giving them a year or so of life; separating calves from cows when very young and then harvesting the cows for milk -loads of examples. Why pick on the Grand National? Just because its on tv!

Horses die, they fall, they get injured. Most accidents happen in the field when another horse kicks them, or god forbid they are racing each other - yes, horses love racing each other even when at liberty. My very fluffy-bunny-rabbitty flatmate announced that horses being outdoors in the winter snow was cruel, and their noses must be frozen trying to eat. No concept that they are outdoor animals covered in fur who need to move around to function, that they are usually kept in at nights in winter, that they are given hay to eat, etc.. Just the pointless, fluffy sentiment to make her feel better about herself, with no experience of what shes actually talking about.

Yawn - as I have pointed out upthread, all animal cruelty is a concern of mine (and many others on here I am guessing) and I have my own horses.

Pointing out the myriad ways in which humans treat animals cruelly does not make the GN somehow less cruel.

Denman, I was at Haydock RC on Saturday, only 15 mins from Aintree and it was good to soft there so maybe it will be similar at Aintree?

Have you ever actually ridden a racehorse countrykitten, in training, on the gallops, and struggled not to get carted?

Hope you don't event/showjump/do dressage/trot on roads/ride in a school/turnout/don't turnout your horses, all just as perceptibly "cruel" unnatural uses of horses quite possibly more dangerous and harmful to the long term wellbeing of the horse. Hope you don't own a warmblood loose jumped before its joints are fused and its mentally ready either. Or an Irish horse backed at two and hunted at three.

I've ridden since childhood, including jumping. And I detest the Grand National. I am completely unable to watch it and find it incredibly cruel. I don't give a shit if it's natural for horses to want to run, race, jump, they're just doing what they're trained to do etc. iThe course has never been safe, and everyone has a responsibility to protect the horses participating - the jockeys know and understand the risks, the horses don't.

Tbh there is a safety problem across national hunt racing. Horses die regularly but it's only the National that gets the column inches. If the sport can't get its act together it should be banned on animal welfare grounds.

Zilvern no I have not ever ridden a racehorse - so what? So this means I can't have an opinion on the GN? I don't have a cock either but I think that rape is wrong.

And FWIW I own a Welsh cob who is a wilful pain in the arse but whom I love dearly and will be with me until the end of his days.

And I agree with everything CW said too.

Whilst I am not defended the deaths in racing, every single one of them is a tragedy and we should never stop trying to make the sport safer, people do need to take into account the numbers we are talking about.

As someone said earlier in the thread, around 300 horses die racing each year. The causes of these deaths are wide and varying - some are broken limbs, some are spinal injuries, some are heart attacks, some are irreparable tendon damage. No horse that could be saved is put down, the fact is that these injuries are completely irreversible - just look at the time and money spent on Barbaro in the USA, thre result? He was put to sleep after 8 months of discomfort, drugged to his eyeballs.

I got sidetracked there, my point was about the numbers, there are some 15,000 racehorses in the UK in training. Add to that the horses brought from all over the world to race. They run around 90,000 times per year (each horse running several times). From these 90,000 runs around 300 will result in a fatality, that's 0.33%.

99.67% of the time there are no fatalities.

You are lucky op that there are hundreds of things you can do this weekend to avoid watching or hearing bout it.

Personally I have huge other dreads in my life that effect me or my children/ family directly, and I can't switch those off.

We will all be putting a bet on in this house and my girls will always go with a female jockey.

YANBU
Our local travelodge is £300 for Fri/Sat nights and even months ago we couldn't get dinner reservations within 6 miles of town.

Now I have to bloody cook!

Yanbu.

lonah what a silly post. Just because someone cares about an issue does not mean that they do not have other things to care about - what stupid one-upmanship.

I've just caught up with this.

There seem to be a good few posts from people who claim to be involved in racing, saying that 'a lot worse happens' which we don't know/care about - what? Or is it so shocking as to be unprintable here?

I believe you. But how on earth is that an argument for the GN to continue?

and 'a lot of horses die in other events, not just the GN' - yes, of course they do. How, again, is this an argument for the GN to continue?

How is the fact that this is the most publicised race, and therefore prompts the biggest backlash, even relevant? That's obvious.

this is horse racing showing its sordid face once a year. It's bound to receive a negative response. It does not mean that no one cares about the other races, the 'worse' things going on. It just means not so many people KNOW about them.

That does NOT mean that people are being complicit in the other stuff, or thinking it's OK. They simply aren't aware of it most of the time and if they were, of course they would hate the idea of it as much as they hate the National.

Another point to make about Animal Aid:

They advocate boycotting charities that raise funds for cancer research (I presume due to potential animal testing)

They advocate boycotting charities that provide farm animals for poor farmers in Africa (again I presume because they are anti "using" animals)

I know nothing about animal aid. Just saying, I don't have any affiliations to anyone or anything like that.

I just hate exploitation.

I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of being an Animal Aid supporter, it's just that when these "once a year" threads start up, their statistics are invariably quoted along with links to their website.

I just want people to aware of their agenda and understand that there is more than a hint of bias in their statements.

As there are in the the statements of the pro racing bodies.

My DH breeds national hunt horses, and he adores them all (to the extent I know where I stand in his affections). His ultimate success was to breed (twice) "the highest placed British bred horse" in the GN. He keeps in touch with all his babies even after they've been sold, and they've all been well looked after and much loved by owners and trainers. Now this might be that the horses are an old fashioned type of slow maturing horse that's not ready to run till it's 4 or 5, and so of no interest to the flash owners.

The mares continue to breed into their twenties, but often only have a foal every 2 or 3 years, and then a long and pampered retirement. They are put down at home, held by my DH whilst eating an apple. There appear to be many in racing like my DH.

One thing is for certain, a horse will only race because it likes it, if it doesn't it will not try (and sometimes will refuse to start). I know from many experiences you cannot force a thoroughbred to do anything it doesn't want to, they certainly know how to say a most emphatic "no". The one we bred that did well in the GN loved Aintree and Cheltenham, two of the most difficult tracks, and couldn't be arsed to try anywhere else.

It is horrible when a horse is killed in a race, and I don't know of anyone involved in racing who doesn't get upset, but at least it is quick and the horse will have had no anticipation of what is happening. I always feel for the poor groom who has to retrieve the tack and go home with an empty wagon.

Molecule your dh sounds like a great breeder and one who actually cares. You must admit though that not all horses bred to race are as lucky as the ones that he breeds and clearly cares about. I am glad that he is with his mares when they die as I do think that this is responsible ownership - seeing it through to the end as it were.

I think you may be on to something with the 'flash owners' comment.

Would he have been out on the course, molecule, feeding it an apple if it was lying with a broken back on the course?

Would he say to it (because of course horses speak english in the same way that they can recognise and adore different race courses), "I love you, I love all my horses, but I still feel entitled to put you in the race that has brought you to this, for the hell of it. ".

People who get "upset" about Injuries and fatalities in racing, BUT STILL DO IT, are hypocrites. The weeping owners of dead (he was one if the family) horses that they they have directly caused the death of, are nauseating. I would have more respect if they just admitted that they are in It for the money or the vanity or because they getoff on the vicarious dangers, or because they fell entitled. But spare us all the breast beating and crocodile tears.

Anecdotes about fluffy happy retired racers are a fudge. Its not the norm and you know it. Too many are bred every year for a start in the quest for winners, too many are unsound and unhealthy from birth.

I think that molecule was talking about her dh's breeding mares if your read her post properly

I do see your point though as I heard an interview on the radio with an owner who 'loved' his horse and it's running on Saturday - he said 'We just want him back in one piece' and I thought 'Don't put him through it then'.