To be dreading the grand national on Saturday?

[annabanana84]

once again the grand national has come around, and to say I despise it is an understatement. The fact that people race these poor horses for entertainment and money really defies belief. The way those poor horses get whipped, exhausted and there is not a year goes by that we hear of deaths or the animals having to be put to sleep because of them breaking their necks, backs, or other injuries. I so dread it. You can't even get away from hearing about the deaths because it's broadcast on every news programme.

Ok, so do we think Katie is going to be our first female winner?

thewrath what about the jockeyless horses, why do they continue to run, do you think?

It would be amazing if she was :)

That's really not true. Only very rarely will a horse refuse to race . Yes, the whip is used in the closing stages however the whip is very soft and there are strict rules on where and how many times it can be used. Nothing will make a horse go if it doesn't want to.

I hate this race, in fact I hate all horse racing. It's cruel and wicked and fir the entertainment of stupid, drunken thugs - male and female - who don't give a fuck about the animals suffering. Greyhound racing is the same. Should be banned, circuses are

Adrenaline? Herd mentality? Having being whipped they continue until they are stopped?

Its not like its always their first race, they have been trained to perform in this unnatural way.

catgirl I'm putting £20 each way on her! Go Katie!!!

You'll have to elaborate on what is cruel and wicked greydog. And I am far from stupid ( drunken I'll give you )!

Leaving thread now. So I am not deliberately ignoring responses, if any.

You can't have it both ways wrath - it can't both be unnatural and herd mentality, now can it?

The guardian did an article/blog on it today

www.guardian.co.uk/sport/shortcuts/2013/apr/02/do-you-think-grand-national-cruel

And have you ever tried to stop a racehorse?

Adrenaline and herd mentality are far and away the biggest factors Naan. The whip really isn't. I would support a ban on whips although they do have a role to play as a pressure aid, but not as an implement to strike a horse with the intention of hurting it.

Any horse will race regardless of training because, as you say, they are herd animals.

My own horse would be shite at racing though. If he gets to the lead of a group he panics, stops and turns round to see where everyone else is

Have a look at this, Jenny. www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/

and while it is bound to present worse case it's worth a read. The disposal of "faulty" animals is a real shame, and it's the same in the greyhound industry. I don't think animals should be used in this way

Thanks greydog . As a horse lover and owner ( I prefer them to most humans, to be honest!) I agree with some of that link but I also know lots of fab ex racers now in private homes.

Greydog I am oppossed to cruelty within racing and would support any sensible campaign to eliminate it.

But just because some cruelty does still exist within racing does not make racing cruel in itself.

It's like saying that because some racism exists within football, football is racist and only enjoyed by racists. Clearly lots of people love football but hate the elements of racism that occur and would act to see that removed. Same with racing and cruelty.

No one likes to see a horse fall. Horses are my life and my livelihood but I love racing and hunting, all equestrian sports.
I would add that a quick death on the course is preferable to some I have witnessed.

Animal Aid are an animal rights organisation, not an animal welfare group. Their sole aim in life is to ban all sports involving animals. A lot of what they say needs taking with a pinch of salt.

They talk about mares bring bred to death by having foals every year - what do they think happens in wild horse herds?

I think, Ladies, that we will have to agree to disagree over this! If only the cruelty could be taken away - I think the reason I am so anti is having worked in Liverpool for many years and the attitude of so many race goers who seem to think that the death of an animal was an added bonus to their day out. Sickening and sad. Who was it said "scratch a civilised man and you'll find a savage"?

and Frankly, I did say it was "worse case" from Animal aid

That attitude is indeed apalling Greydog :(

I have never come across it myself but would be outraged if I did.

I point people to:

Retraining of Racehorses

Thoroughbred Rehoming

Moorcroft

Heros

Darley Rehoming

At the end of the day, not every off the track thoroughbred is suitable for restraining or rehoming. Far better that they be humanely and responsibly put down to prevent them slipping into a spiral of neglect.

Sorry greydog I didn't aim that comment at you personally, more a general point about AA.

When I go racing I don't drink and rarely bet - £2.50 each way is my biggest expense! I go racing to watch these magnificent animals do what they do best - run. I followed Frankel all over the country last year and every moment was pure joy. To see this epitome of equine strength, courage and beauty simply took my breath away.

I hate horse racing, the fact that they so relaxed the rules on whip usage so quickly after changing them just shows where their priorities lie.

And saying how the horses get treated like royalty / better than their own children etc etc just does not wash with me. The horses are wrapped up in cotton wool so they can't injure themselves before a race, meaning they live a very unnatural lifestyle. And then what does it matter how well they are cared for when they are then pushed to exhaustion and even death for one race? I don't understand why there isn't more outrage about it every year when we are meant to be a nation of animal lovers.

Yanbu. I boycott all horse racing and especially the grand national.

Trust me when I tell you that if a horse doesn't want to run, it will not run. Likewise with the jumping! My old horse bloody well loved a good gallop, with or without a herd to run with. In fact If he caught you napping when you hit grass you would be half way across the field before you could blink, and then spend the rest of the field trying to stop him. He hated jumping though, and if I pointed him at a fence even at high speed he would stop dead and tell me to piss off in no uncertain terms. New horse loves jumping to the point where if there is a jump in the arena, he will drop his shoulder on the corner to put me off balance and be away at the jump before I can stop him the cheeky little bugger. when i do jump him properly he gets very excited and the look on his face when we have finished is "wow that was fun"
Basically horses will not do what they don't want to do, regardless of whips and jockey, and in racing they have to give 100% to win so any horse that isn't giving 100% the owner won't waste the money on training them, which is very expensive.
There is a lot of wastage in racing, largely I believe due to horses being started too young before the joints are fully matured, and once they come off the track they need a lot of reschooling before they are suitable as general riding horses, because of this they are often given away or sold for a pittance because it's a lot of work to get a decent safe horse out of it.
It's an amazing feat for a horse to get round the course, let alone win, but not any more amazing than show jumping puissance where the horse jumps 7ft plus, or eventing, nor even dressage, which isn't as dramatic, but is every bit as challenging for the horse as racing.
I do agree that the field should be halved, and the horses have to qualify in some way by demonstrating their staying ability and jumping ability so that only the horses that are truly up to the job will even attempt it. That would eliminate a lot of the fallers. Also, let's not forget the hundreds of horses who are destroyed after self inflicted accidents in their fields, with no one whipping them or making them run, they gallop about the field, slip, break a leg or injure their pelvis or back, all on their own.

There are qualifying factors for a horse to run in the Grand National:

They must be over 7 years of age
They must have run over a minimum distance (to prove their stamina)
They must have a minimum rating - all horses are rated according to their ability, with the rating reviewed every time they race

The only other possible criteria that they could introduce is that the horse must run over the Grand National style fences, but there are only 3 other races per year in which they can do so.