Are SAHMS discriminated against. Red magazine are doing an article about it.

[Darkesteyes]

Just seen this on twitter.

Are stay at home mums discriminated against? Are you one and unhappy with benefits, or feel judged? Tell us.
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Goldenbear ahhhh so you cant answer that or justify it and we all now know you made it up. Thats cool, just needed clarity on it. I knew I hadn't said and knew it was untrue. Just needed clarity!

Well I really think it would be patronising of me to explain the terms implicit and explicit but...

Come on now... Grasping at straws here..

Golden - you did accuse Chick of writing SAHP's off. She does have a point.

Goldenbear won't answer your question LittleChickpea, just as she didn't respond when I queried something she'd said back on about page 4. Apparently I display terrible prejudice by asking all the candidates the same questions at interview and expecting all the candidates to be able to substantiate any claims they make about skills they have.

I completely agree with Goldenbear's statement that the best person for the job may not be the longest serving, nor even the person with the most continuous service though. Someone with several years out of the workplace may well be the best person for the job but I can't know that (and thus choose to employ them) if they can't demonstrate their potential during the selection process. It would be nice to be psychic but I'm not.

You also have strange view of what you think is going on. You imply I think that SAHP's need extra points for being - well SAHP's!

The reality is what myself and others have stated. We are in the workplace - you are not. Maybe if you feel this strongly about what is going on you need to get back into the workplace and change things!

Being a parent certainly develops certain skills, just as running a home well can demonstrate specific skills such as organisation and time manangement. But these things aren't exclusive to SAHM. WOHM applying for a job will also be able to demonstrate those attributes

Apparently I display terrible prejudice by asking all the candidates the same questions at interview and expecting all the candidates to be able to substantiate any claims they make about skills they have

why is this prejudicial? Maybe we will get an answer to this question!

Most women are discriminated against IN the workplace, I think that when you are a SAHM you are the boss of the show normally. Most men are asked by their bosses when they want a day off for emergency child care "cant your wife look after him/her", no matter if she works....or earns more money than the husband.

time out of the workplace is time out of the workplace - its a choice that you have to deal with

Its OK I was accused of being so unpleasant at interview no one wants to wqork for me! How they would know is a little confusing because they didn't turn up to be interviewed! Still - hey ho.

Permanently, I said certain views were prejudicial in nature, not the rest. If it was you that said SAHP came across as 'entitled', then my comments were correct?

Maisie, you are in YOUR workplace and that is the extent of your experience if you want to follow that line of argument. I'm a SAHP, we don't exist in some kind of vacuum. People around me are in employment, immediate family, friends, they talk about what is going on in the big, important world of work.

I don't have any desire to return to that kind of workplace yet as my work is SAHP at the moment.

I wonder if the Gov could legislate for a new Short Notice Leave allowance for all workers of, say, 5 days per year which they can take without prior notice or explanation. Then men and women can take time off for child/elderly rellie care without it being held against them and without them having to explain why they need time off.

No, I have never said that SAHP come across as entitled. You're mixing me up with someone else.

In fact my original comment was on page 2 when I said that if employers couldn't see what skills were gained by being a SAHP it was because they were not being demonstrated during the selection process. All candidates need to be able to demonstrate the skills they claim to have with specific examples. That applies equally to someone looking to get back into the workplace after x years as a SAHP as well as to someone with 40+ years of continuous service.

IME the calibre of applications we receive in my industry is phenomenally better than it was even 5 years ago. Not the candidates but the professionalism of their applications and their conduct at interview. Choosing candidates, even after interviews have been held, is unbelievably difficult.

If you are due to do a big presentation how would this leave at a moments notice with no explanation work?

In my experience I have found that in real emergencies eg child been rushed into hospital of course you must go. I had a father ask if he could be excused from an important meeting the next day because his cat had died the previous day and his DD didn't feel up to going to school.

Sorry chickpea ...
Did you actually read what I wrote - I am overqualified - the last thing I need is another qualification - 'upskilling ' (is that word actually in the dictionary?) ...actually thought that was what counted against me - until I read some what some people in recruitment had written...
As to being flexible - I could be - why do you think I explained the reasons I had taken the career break and that I could make a FT commitment - that DP would become a SAHD etc - as I have said I researched the post and looked at the skills required ...and believe me that was a job I was more than qualified for - even after my career break - I could have done it really well - there will be slightly updated procedures (but I have proved without doubt in my PhD I could learn and implement even completely new to me techniques rapidly, I could adapt and even design new techniques to try and answer the questions being thrown at me by the results - it wasn't an an easy thing to study)
I have been a manager, I have been an employer, I have interviewed and recruited people...I know what I would expect from people who worked for me ...I think that should make me a good employee...
I more than realise what RL is - I think you didn't read my earlier post ...my partner had his own business - a successful restaurant business - I did all the admin/accounts/organisation etc for him - he sold it purely to spend more time with his DCs (at a tidy profit - just before the economic downturn). He now has a low paid but undemanding job which gives him more time to spend with the family...and why I should be able to restart my career...
As to useful skills you learn as a SAHP ....let see ...negotiation, diplomacy, patience, multitasking, coping under pressure, dealing with monotony/repetition, ability to adapt and learn new skills, budgeting, organisation, self discipline, common sense - guess all parents learn those but in my experience if you are a FTWM you miss fun with your DCs but you also want to make time you spend with them special and they appreciate your time with them more ... you miss a lot of the hard parts (not including things like DD1s nursery more or less potty trained her for me...) try spending all day, every day getting the paints/playdoh out for 20 mins play followed by 30 mins tidying up whilst your 2.5 year old is wanting help with that puzzle NOW and the postman is at the door with a parcel or the plumber on the phone to arrange a time for a boiler repair or even one of the annoying sales calls you get bombarded with and the cat has been sick on the stairs (NO! that's not for touching)..and then its school pick up but younger DC needs a poo (why didn't you tell me that 5 min ago?) . Then your DCs are bickering over whether they watch cbeebies or cBBC whilst you try and cook their dinner (you have already done how did you get on school today conversation? - so not much else to talk about by now - hardly likely you have anything interesting to tell DC about your day ) ...then DC won't do her maths homework and doesn't want a bath ....you get them to bed and tidy up the devastation and then you are going to do it all again tomorrow and the next day and the next....until the weekend....great - but actually it isn't much different...

Suspect it was me. I did use the word entitled because I thought we would get a fab group of candicates. I stated 3 didnt turn up, one rang to say she needed to take her DS to the GP and one asked if she could do the role at home to save on childcare costs!

JustinBsMum. Nice in theory but probably not practical in many jobs. In most jobs there is a knock-on effect on your colleagues if you are away at short notice so some explanation would be polite at the very least. Besides, if there was no requirement for an explanation, what would stop people just using it as another 5 days of annual leave?

Most employees are able to have compassionate leave or parental leave. If employers wish to be obstructive, another form of leave won't change that.

Unlucky83

negotiation, diplomacy, patience, multitasking, coping under pressure, dealing with monotony/repetition, ability to adapt and learn new skills, budgeting, organisation, self discipline, common sense.

Yes, I agree, those are skills that most parents would think they've developed. As an employer though, I would want more than a list. I would want specific examples of when you have demonstrated those skills, preferably ones that have some sort of element of professionalism to them.

Looking at that list of skills, I'm struggling to see any that you don't develop as a WOHP too. It's part and parcel of being a parent to young children.

Unlucky83 I must be honest I had already posted my note prior to reading your second comment. I was responding to your initial comment. I have never turned down an excellent CV (short, snappy and to the point) from someone qualified or over qualified with the right experience. If anything I am intrigued when we receive applications from someone I would consider over qualified. I want to know why they are applying for a position they can do with their eyes closed. Honestly, there can be concerns that the person sees the role as a stepping stone and if we advertise we want people that show enthusiasm for that role and want that role. Clearly ambition and progression is important in time. Its all based on how the CV reads and more importantly performance on the day.

negotiation, diplomacy, patience, multitasking, coping under pressure, dealing with monotony/repetition, ability to adapt and learn new skills, budgeting, organisation, self discipline, common sense these skills aren't exclusive to SAHP. I would expect most people in business / normal life have these skills. It's how these skills are sold in an interview that matters. Don't mean to sound cold but telling me about kids arguing and managing a household won't do it. I need to understand how those skills transfer into the role profile.

I say again..... I don't care if someone is a SAHP or not. The strongest CVs get interviews and the strongest candidates get the job.

To read the end of this thread you would think that SAHMs have absolutely no experience of the workplace whatsoever.

Most worked before they became SAHMs. Some of them at a high level. It isn't just about the skills you "pick up" as a SAHM. It's about the skills you picked up before you had children too, when you were employed.

Yes you might have to update them, or retrain. No-one expects to waltz into a job because they've been a SAHM. It's the fact that you already had those skills, and many organisational skills are reinforced through the experience of being a SAHM which requires a good deal of motivation.

However, you're never going to be an attractive proposition when you have children for the reasons I outline above.

This applies equally to WOHMs applying for new jobs/promotions as well as SAHMs.

Sadly we seem to be preoccupied by a wholly irrelevant competition between SAHM/WOHMs.

I agree Janey.

Negotiation, diplomacy, patience, coping under pressure, self-discipline - all skills I demonstrate concurrently (thus also multitasking) at about 7.55am every morning as the children bicker amongst themselves whilst not getting their shoes, coats, bags, etc. and I watch the seconds count down until that moment when I know nothing short of a miracle is going to mean I can make up the lost time on the journey to work.

Totally agree with LittleChickpea. That's what I've been trying to explain as well.

Permanently exhausted - so how would you like that presented?
As 'I demonstrated my negotiation skills by persuading DD1 to allow (without further disagreement) DD2 to watch cBeebies for the next 30 mins and then she could watch cBBC for the next 30 mins' - really how would you put that?
Janey68 - my point exactly - you (as someone responsible for recruitment) - know that - so how can a SAHM wanting to return to work express that on a cv - professionally?
And actually - have you done both? I have...and they are both hard and the grass is always greener but ...when I was a FTWM I was jealous...now as a SAHM I realise how hard it actually is ... I think it is you have to do it 90+% of the time...think a tantrumy 2 year old and how hard they can be to deal with stopping them getting to the full blown stage ...the negotiation, diplomacy, patience, common sense, ability to adapt required - now if they are at Nursery/childcare all day someone else is doing that for you too - if they are with you all day you are practising those skills for at least 75% of your day...soon the thing that worked two or three times is going to not be as effective ...you are going to have change your approach...(or in my case you have DD1 saying thats 'rubbish' distraction technique - DD2 you know she is trying to distract you from wanting XYZ )
Also without a doubt - children are always much harder for their parent to deal with (testing the boundaries) than for others...
If nothing else the sheer monotony - and coping with that - and mess that is created and tidied every day - way more than if everyone has been out all day ...
I think probably the biggest thing really is the DCs have missed you and want to spend time with you...and the same for you too - it is a change, you have more to talk about and and they just seem to be easier to deal with for it ....