Sub-letting of council accommodation. Why are so many mothers on welfare who still have active sexual relationships with the father of their child, are not living in the flat or house allocate for the

[SubLetFun]

I know of at least five relationships where this is happening.

The fathers are still, actively in the children?s lives, and there is no apparent relationship problem, but they are living apart.

The mothers live part or most of their lives at the parents? (council) houses and in some cases the fathers do as well, so that they can sublet their council houses. I have not reported them yet. Should I?

Thank you to those defending me for simply posting a question.

Defending an experience of people I know is becoming very tiring.

Amberleaf, how am I lying? You do not detail what you know differently, I'm telling the truth and see the effects it is having on the older members of one family in particular. They are worried that everything will be exposed. It's unlikely much will happen anyway.

Anything I have posted about 'mothers' is because they are mothers, mothers who are pretending they are single when they are not, like I say, I don't know if it is to get some extra benefit? They still see the father (no one has mentioned that I keep saying the word 'father'!) They sublet and live all/most of their lives, depending on the couple, in their parents' council house - both have council houses with spare rooms. I can only say how it is.

Some of the men they are involved have always been trying to make a quick buck but once you have a child, the severity of the implications of committing the crime of fraud becomes deeper. The responsibility, if she wants the best for her child/ren sadly, often fall on the mother to say that she isn't comfortable with what is going on.

Having 'sexual relations' with the father is just a way of saying, they are not estranged, the father is very much on the scene but to all intents and purposes it is made to appear as though they are.

Amberleaf, the situation you're talking about was a PRIVATE landlord, these are council tenants, they are subletting their accomodation to other people for cash in hand.

Amberleaf, without talking about the tv programme about the private landlord, detail why I am lying. It is thoroughly offensive to accuse someone of lying. Do you live in council accomodation? You must see it going on. Others here have said they have seen is happening. In London and the South East it is widespread.

That should say

Having 'sexual relations' with the father is just a way of saying, they are not estranged, the father is very much on the scene but to all intents and purposes it is made to appear as though they are not

I am questioning why they are doing it. Why are they lying about their situation and causing stress to other members of their family?

I can see that the title was somewhat clumsy.

Perhaps a more understable title would have been.

AIBU ' To ask whether welfare parents pretending to be single and estranged should be subletting council accomodation for cash in hand and living at parents' council houses while doing so? Implications for children and elderly relatives ?

MNHQ can change it if all the words fit.

Fair enough Amber but I don't really know what you expected the OP to say in response to 'well I saw a documentary where a policeman did that.'

I'm sure you are right and that most people who do it are not like the women in the OP's example, but that doesn't somehow negate or override the fact that these people are apparently doing it now.

I think the reference to the 'single mothers having sex with the fathers of their children' was clumsy, but it was to illustrate that not only are they sub-letting the houses illegally, but they are obtaining financial advantage though benefits by pretending that they are separated from their children's father when they are not. But that's a different issue. Although it seems to have compounded the OP's annoyance in this instance. I agree it's a bit of a Daily Mailesque thread title but that is not illegal and worthy of automatic deletion yet.

Whoah - massive crossed posts!

Amberleaf, the situation you're talking about was a PRIVATE landlord, these are council tenants, they are subletting their accomodation to other people for cash in hand

Um, no read it again, he was a council tenant. NOT a private landlord, he was illegally subletting his council home for cash at a profit

Here is the link again

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13231419

Amberleaf, without talking about the tv programme about the private landlord, detail why I am lying. It is thoroughly offensive to accuse someone of lying. Do you live in council accomodation? You must see it going on. Others here have said they have seen is happening. In London and the South East it is widespread

I live in a housing association property yes, On a rd where most of the properties are privately owned, I have known of someone who did this, she sublet her council flat when she moved into a flat she bought, I sort of knew of another case, but I knew the tenant who was 'renting' off the subletter, again the original tenant moved out when they bought their own home

I have also know of housing dept workers who have fraudulently enabled friends/relatives to be given council properties

I haven't known of anyone in the sort of situation you describe that happens with 'so many' mothers, Im sure there are cases like that but not 'so many' and I don't think it is the biggest issue of that nature

To ask whether welfare parents pretending to be single and estranged should be subletting council accomodation for cash in hand and living at parents' council houses while doing so? Implications for children and elderly relatives

Two issues no? fraudulent benefit claims and illegal subletting.

Fellatio
Fair enough Amber but I don't really know what you expected the OP to say in response to 'well I saw a documentary where a policeman did that

Well, I would have liked her to actually read the article which she clearly didn't.

I'll have to learn to type faster, TheRealFellatio.

Thanks for the reference to the bloody Daily Mail. I am truly offended now.

I would have to accompany it with photos of families with 10 children, wouldn't I?! The families I know, have between one and three children per household.

Some of the men are actually fathers to more children but they go between alternate households. I don't know why their partners tolerate it but that a whole other issue.

Thanks Kate.

Amberleaf, you've outright accused me of lying and are now giving examples of people you have known who have sublet council accomodation.

You say that you don't know any mothers who have done it. Why would having a child prevent someone from doing so if they have a mind to do it?
Being a mother doesn't preclude someone from committing fraud.

To me, it is 'so many'. Five sets of people that just little old me knows, when visiting one family and their extended family and friends is a lot, as a sample. Others have said it is happening.
You have said that it is happening.

Why has KateSMumsnet withdrawn her message?

Wow AmberLeaf post has just been withdrawn.

It detailed the subletting that she has witnessed in her housing association accmodation. Kate MN? Is that fair?

It is ok, now there again. As you were, ignore above post.

@TheRealFellatio

Why has KateSMumsnet withdrawn her message?

because I'm an eejit Had to do a wee adjustment.

Adjustment relating to her post?

I think they should be reported. People are living in difficult circumstances on endless waiting lists and then you have those cheats making money.

Subletfun

Have you read the link again about the policeman subletting his council property?

You say that you don't know any mothers who have done it. Why would having a child prevent someone from doing so if they have a mind to do it?

You are being obtuse.

You know that is not what I said.

This is not about mothers it is about people [in your example] fraudulently claiming benefits as single parents and illegally subletting.

One of the people I knew of was a mother, but she wasn't a benefit claimant fraudulent or otherwise, she was a working professional who was able to buy her own home with a mortgage...but still kept her council tenancy and sublet it.

The goalposts keep on changing AmberLeaf! So it is about some mothers who have the ability to buy and then sublet. Still fraudulent but not quite what I am talking about.

The people I'm talking about don't own any property, they don't have mortgages. One set of parents may have bought their own council house. I don't know if they have or not but as they have extravagant holidays and have an income below £30k before tax, I am presuming that they budget very well or have come into money. The job of the parent is sporadic and low skilled. Only stating the fact without judgement.

Four out of five of them have been promised their parents' house when they die. I can't see it ending well as each adult child will want to live in it. There is little way of them buying their parents' houses even with the discount as they cannot budget and with a house above 400k in the area, it will not easy to save for.

The goalposts keep on changing AmberLeaf! So it is about some mothers who have the ability to buy and then sublet. Still fraudulent but not quite what I am talking about

What are you talking about?

Im not stating what it is about, I was just reminding you what your OP was stating!

Ok so we are clear then, this is about only subletting fraudsters who also claim benefit fraudulently?

Is that why yo keep ignoring my point about the police officer who sublet his council flat?

Four out of five of them have been promised their parents' house when they die

Well thats laughable really, as they have their own tenancies they wont be able to take on their parents council homes under the right of succession [if such a thing still exists by then]

The issue of people in a relationship pretending to be single and pretending that the father does not care enough to see his children when he does, is odd, is it not? What effect does that have on the children?

Somehow, and I don't know how, hence my asking on here, it is related to subletting of council accomodation and living in parents' council house.

Does it increase the benefit capacity? They have council accomodation allocated to them and yet they are at parents' houses while it is standing being let or standing empty waiting to be let for cash in hand. The older women in the council houses, not working, some of pensionable age are acting as babysitters and cooks without a break while the mothers are engaging in the cash in hand activities.

I think the right of succession just states that you have to be living there for a few years doesn't it. They will presumably just move in as carers in the last years.

Intriguing thread. I've nothing much to add to it but would like to clarify one point.

SubLetFun says these five women are claiming to be single despite having sexual relations with the fathers of their children. She also says these women spend most of their time at their parents' houses, and the fathers spend their time at their parents'. That suggests the mothers and fathers in question haven't set up home together.

For benefit purposes, one can be single, married, divorced, widowed, civil partnershipped (or whatever the verb is), or one can have a partner. "We use partner to mean someone you live with as though you are married" is the standard phrasing on benefit forms. In other words, you can be shagging whoever you like, but if you haven't set up home with them, then you're classed as single.

I've no idea if the allocation of council houses uses the same definition, but would assume they do, or at least a similar one, otherwise choosing to have a sex life would affect your entitlement, and that's a bit bonkers.