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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To feel sad that this could be the beginning of the end for the United Kingdom?

253 replies

SamuelWestsMistress · 21/03/2013 19:40

I feel so sad this evening after hearing the news for the date for the referendum. I am really dreading the whole countdown to voting day because I really fear that the SNP will get their way. What would be really sad is if its a close count. I just desperately hope living here won't feel too different.

I love having a British identity despite being born in Scotland and will be so sad and angry if its taken away.

AIBU to be feeling rather worried and actually afraid by the entire thing? I really don't like the SNP. (Don't like the coalition it her, but I think they've managed to push things to come to this!)

OP posts:

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 22/03/2013 09:10

The oil doesn't matter.

Yes it will run out, but Scotland has plenty of other things going for it.

Remember Scotland currently pays more to Westminster in oil revenues and taxes than it gets back. Scotland is not some sort of subsidy junkie relying on Westminster for handouts.

MrsKeithRichards · 22/03/2013 09:20

But luckytwo you left the country!

StatisticallyChallenged · 22/03/2013 09:21

I don't think that's strictly true ItsAllGoingToBeFine

stargirl1701 · 22/03/2013 09:24

It's not going to happen. Other than my Dad, I don't know anyone else voting for independence.

Tailtwister · 22/03/2013 09:26

I will be voting NO. I think it would be a huge mistake.

FryOneFatManic · 22/03/2013 09:27

I think that before people make a decision, they really need to reaserch everything themselves and not rely on what the politicians are saying.

For example, I saw something where Salmond was discussing the oil fields, and he drew a line straight out horizontal from Berwick into the North Sea, marking a border between England and Scotland to show the fields he thought would become Scottish.

However, under international law, country borders that extend into the sea continue in the direction they do on land, so a border between England and Scotland would in reality be slanted north and Scotland would not get as many oil fields as Salmond was implying.

If people want independence, that's their choice, but I think they should be basing it on what's really going to happen and not what the politicians tell you is going to happen.

NessieMcFessie · 22/03/2013 10:40

I am Scottish, born in Scotland and my children were born in Scotland. I don't live there anymore (and not even in the UK). I have been away for 10 years.

I do see both arguments about who should be allowed to vote but a 'yes' vote would still have serious repercussions for me, so why shouldn't I be allowed to vote?

forgetmenots · 22/03/2013 10:45

I agree with your last statement fry,but that includes No campaign scare stories too.

I'm fundamentally voting yes though on the basis that every other country looks after itself, makes decisions for itself and has no one else to blame or answer to. I find the No campaign infantilising and patronising. I'm no SNP fangirl but more a Green or independent who approves of some of the recent policy decisions and thinks that we should continue to make these decisions and others by ourselves.

I can totally understand people who want to hear more before deciding. I can totally understand those like the OP who are worried about loss of their identity (although as someone who has never felt British, I can assure you you will survive when the shoe is on the other foot). I also am not keen on Salmond and I understand a lot of the anti-SNP feeling. What I cannot honestly fathom are the people who are instinctively against the very notion of Scotland governing itself, the very thought. Fear isn't a reason to vote no, just as blind patriotism isn't enough to vote yes.

forgetmenots · 22/03/2013 10:47

and yy Euphemia, I like Sturgeon too (though my political heart still belongs to Margo...)

forgetmenots · 22/03/2013 10:51

Simply nessie because it would be impossible to draw a line. I can see why you would feel like you should vote. But what if you'd been away for 30, 40 years and had no intention or interest in returning? Should you get the vote if your parents were Scottish but you've never lived here, and so on.

I'm afraid it has to be the will of those who choose to make their lives here. I also like that that includes those of all nations who make Scotland their home, my sense of nation is very much a civic and not an ethnic one or one tied up in place of origin.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 22/03/2013 10:51

Nessie, the outcome of the vote will effect those resident in Scotland most.

This is a vote about a modern country being allowed to govern itself. Thus it should be decided by those who live there.

Surely a country should be defined by those who actually live there?

Shesparkles · 22/03/2013 10:51

It's a great big NO from me too.
I trust Salmond as far as I can throw him, greasy slimy smug toad

boxershorts · 22/03/2013 10:53

This time the vote will go against Alex Salmon. Next time? who knows

forgetmenots · 22/03/2013 10:55

It's not about salmond though, shesparkles. If it were I would vote NO too. It would be overwhelming.
Vote him out after the referendum and you will be much more likely to get the decision makers you want than under current system.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 22/03/2013 10:55

Gah!

It's not about trusting Salmond!

Its about doing your own research and making a proper informed decision.

If you loath Salmond/SNP the best chance to get rid of them would be to vote yes.

To be brutal SNP wouldn't really have much point after a yes vote - all the other parties would come much more to the fore even potentially the Scottish Conservatives!

StatisticallyChallenged · 22/03/2013 10:56

I had the pleasure of sharing a flight with Salmond and his entourage one day. Blinking ridiculous - the plane was delayed for ages (we were boarded and just sitting in the plane) and it became apparent why when salmond and co got on. And proceeded to take absolutely ages getting seated, then getting back up to rake for various things...in the end the Air Hostess told them to take their seats. But what was more amusing was that included in the group was a guy in full clan chieftain type dress...Just in case we hadn't realised they were Scottish.

StatisticallyChallenged · 22/03/2013 10:57

(and I know it's not about trusting Salmond - just saying the behaviour was rather annoying)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 22/03/2013 10:58

Ah, but the whole tartan clad highlander thing sells really well outside Scotland. I'd guess he'd been selling something. At least he wasn't wearing the kilt himself

forgetmenots · 22/03/2013 10:59

Statisticallychallenged

New no campaign poster with salmond's face on it. Slogan: BEHAVES LIKE A FUD ON PLANES

Could work! :)

StatisticallyChallenged · 22/03/2013 11:00

He was in Dublin and the Irish folk on the flight looked ready to thump him ..mind you the rest of the scots looked verging on murderous...don't hold up a Friday evening flight taking a bunch of people who have been working away all week back home, and a bunch of rowdy Irish lads to a stag do

Shesparkles · 22/03/2013 11:05

I was being lighthearted (although honest) with my comments about Salmond, but it's still a great big NO from me

AuroraAlfresco · 22/03/2013 12:48

Yes, it's not about Alex sodding Salmond. If there's a Yes vote, the most likely thing that he'll do will be to retire from politics shortly thereafter.

Why is it, do you think, that the Better Together FB page feel the need to delete comments and ban posters who have an opposing point of view to theirs? I've seen it with my own eyes - I have a friend who used to regularly, politely, intelligently refute the points the Better Together scaremongers were trying to make ... she got banned. She was never remotely abusive, her mission was simply to inform people.

And this great video was taken down from YouTube several times over the last few days, thanks to an extremely weak "copyright" claim by Better Together - why? What are they so scared of?

bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/03/19/top-10-unionist-myths-debunked-banned-then-re-debunked/

If they believe there are good reasons for Scotland to remain in the UK, then stay and fight your corner - don't just shut down debate, as they are doing!

SirChenjin · 22/03/2013 13:15

Nope, he'll stay. Alex Salmond is the face of the SNP, and much like Thatcher you either love or loathe that face.

Fortunately for those of us here in Scotland, 2/3rds want to stay in the UK, 1/3rd don't. That figure really hasn't changed much over the years.

AuroraAlfresco · 22/03/2013 13:21

OK, I don't have a direct line to Salmond's head, SirChenjin. Neither do you. But the point is, that he isn't the point! We're talking about our futures, our children's futures, their children's futures, etc etc - long after Salmond has shuffled off his coil.

It's about the right of a country to self-determination. Why on earth do people think that politicians in the SE of England know what's best for us, better than we do?

SirChenjin · 22/03/2013 13:27

The people of Scotland do know - which is why 2/3rds of us (or therabouts) have consistently said "naw". We're far too sensible as a nation to vote otherwise, but I do look forward to the country socking it to the SNP (and Alex esp) formally next September.

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