to be really annoyed about antibiotics?

[WaterfallsOver]

Or rather their misuse. I have parent friends who run to the GP every time little Billy has a cough, demanding antibiotics, so many people see them as a panacea. I'm not medically trained but I know they don't work on viruses and many illnesses need to run their course with no medical intervention.

The news is telling us antibiotics won't work in a few years due to over/misuse. I feel really angry that selfishness and stupidity mean in a few years people may die from infections resistant to antibiotics :( if they were only used for serious illness perhaps we'd have a chance. There was a guy who died from resistant infection on the news :(

Every single time I take any of my children to the GP they are prescribed ABs. It's v worrying that they seem to see the ABs as a catch-all safety net.

I take Vitamin D regularly (and bang on about it to everybody who will listen) because I think the evidence for it is good but while it might help prevent a few infections and help with overall health there is no way it would clear up an acute infection and acute infections are what antibiotics are mostly for. There is no decent evidence at all for Pauling's Vitamin C hypothesis.
Yes, industry wants to make money but the claim that industry and science suppresses valid alternative options is rather insulting to the people working in drug development. We also have children, family and friends who are getting sick and possibly die. Does anyone seriously suggest we would keep a real alternative to drugs from the people we care about (and others) purely for the sake of our paycheck? And most alternative treatments cost money and make profit for someone too but they don't ever get accused of moneymaking.

I don't think people are accusing individual scientists working for phara companies Gracelo, rather the interests of the pharmaceutical companies. Not quite the same but I have been working with GP's recently and the vast majority (all actually) have said they believe the drive to prescribe statins is inappropriate for many patients. I believe a lot of drug use & development is about financial interests. IME many GP's believe the same (especially over the last 15 years or so when so much of what they do is dictated to them by non-clinicians).

My favourite GP was a member of No Free Lunch and if in the future I once again have the choice of a member or non-member doctor I would chose a member. IME he did prescribe differently and he discussed options (including watch and wait) much more openly than any other GP I have had.

Oh come on alternative treatments are peanuts compared to big pharma and medicine!
As for would people do research for something you really dont believe in, who would bite the hand that feeds them. Big pharma fund most trails, having an ethical stance will not keep food on the table.

Oh No Free Lunch looks possibly defunct in the UK now. That's a shame.

Gracelo We also take Vitamin D regularly, Vitamin D3 5,000iu strength. On the recommendation of medico friends. They reckon it's the best thing to take to avoid cancer if possible.

Elenor I took high dose Vit C for over a year (Vitamin C 500mg & Zinc15mg) and saw no difference in my susceptibility to infection and how they progressed.

No, jimjams, I know that's not how people mean it but even Pharma industry is made up out of people. And there is no one Pharma industry either, there are many companies of various sizes who are all trying to make a profit and some of them will make that profit with selling Vitamin C and D.
There are loads of examples where pharma companies have messed up and statins is probably one of them but the claim that some valid alternative but cheap option would be actively supressed comes up over and over again, mostly by supporters of homeopathy, and this is just nonsense. If high doses of Vit C would really cure cancer (and it doesn?t according to published peer-reviewed studies) it would be used in the treatment of cancer no matter what the pharma industry thinks about it.

Lets hope drugs companies start putting serious money into researching immunotherapy then.

I don't think cheap options are actively suppressed - they're just never trialled. If something won't make money for a drug company it's going to be difficult to get it through highly expensive clinical trials.

I don't have a spleen and so am prescribed a wide-spectrum antibiotic for prophylaxis. I do know that, barring an accident or extraordinary illness, one day I will almost certainly die of pneumonia. I'd rather like that to be some time off though so if y'all wouldn't mind 1) riding out a cold rather than wasting a doctor's time demanding ABs, 2) finishing the course when you are prescribed ABs and 3) using oregano oil rather than tea tree oil for antibacterial purposes I would be most grateful

My dh is a GP. He doesn't gibe ABs for viruses - which makes him unpopular. Though he's still the most popular doc in the Health Board area!

Elenor your body will only use the Vit C it needs - the rest of it is flushed down the loo along with your urine.

You should speak to your GP about your use of high-dose Vit C if you are ever prescribed medication as it can interfere with the effectiveness of some medication.

MadHair it's the bacteria, not you, which is resistant to the amoxycillin - which is a broad spectrum antibiotic. If you have a bacterial infection which is not cured by a broad spectrum antibiotic, your GP should find out what is causing your infection and then prescribe from a different group of narrow spectrum antibiotics suited to the infection - eg Erythromycin.

Linus Pauling

Neither of his Nobel prizes were for medicine, biology or any related field. Having a degree, or even a Nobel Prize doesn't stop you being a whack-job!

Elenor You probably know but the fight between the Big Pharma companies and the alternative health brigade has been going on for many hundreds of years. Yes Gracelo the companies are run by people but there are many people who don't wish to open their minds and look further than their noses (think about the J.W's who sacrifice their OWN DCs for a principal . No that's not a good example. Here's a good one; when the tobacco companies realised that the science PROVED that their products killed people they still didn't give up making fags did they?

Well I never thought I'd say this, but I guess Ben Goldacre's blog is a good place to start if you want to find out more about the sorts of things pharmaceutical companies get up to (such as withholding trial info).

Alternative treatments might make less money overall but the profit margins are something pharma can only dream of.
Scientists are constantly accused of being close minded when they dismiss alternative hypotheses for which there is no decent scientifically valid evidence. If consideration of evidence is now equal to being close minded, then so be it.
Science isn't only done by industry, there are plenty of scientist working at Universities. Why are they not coming out in support of Vitamin C or homeopathy or whatever else? What do they gain from not speaking out?

I'm always amused that people seem to think ACM is not big business.....

Do you think that the companies who make sugar pills are doing it on a not for profit basis? And because there's no need for those pesky clinical trials, the profits are even higher.

Ohh here we go, its attack homeopathy time HURRAY!!!!

Jimjams, I have no doubt that Pharma does and has done bad things but I just don't believe that something that would truly make a difference in people's health would be suppressed. If there were real, undeniable evidence that eg water really has memory it would get out, journals would want to be the first to publish it, there'd be discussion about it in blogs, scientist in industry and outwith would actually talk about it and they would go and treat themselves and their families with the stuff.

Eh?

Don't you just ?

if you don't give your DCS dairy they don't tend to get ear\ sinus and other infections. I don't usually have dairy but when I do I immediately get all the symptoms that people take ABs for.

Not sure I agree with this. I know plenty of children who eat a lot of dairy and rarely get ear or sinus infections--my daughter loves cheese and milk and during primary school she had about one day off in six years.

Milk and cheese are highly nutritious. Butter also has its nutritional benefits--in fact I have switched from olive oil spread back to butter as it seems to be much healthier.

One of my favourites, Ariel!

The no dairy= no ear infection thing is clearly bonkers (given up on being tactful)

There are actually a lot of discussions now about giving Abs for viral infections PARTICULARLY lung infections; something serious like flu leaves your lungs open to a secondary bacterial infection by a number of different mechanisms. Swabs from flu patients show a v high number have bacterial complications and it is thought these are responsible for a lot of the serious effects of flu esp. death. Interesting.

I'd be far more worried about a) people not finishing courses and b) use in agriculture than GPs prescribing Abs for the odd lung infection.

As a scientist (although this is definitely not my area of expertise) I am quite worried at the amount of nonsense on this thread.

Firstly, read Ben Goldacre's book Bad Science. Trials of vitamin supplements have mostly been ABANDONED for ethical reasons, because those taking them were dying in greater numbers than those in the placebo group. If you're ill, take it easy and eat a varied diet. Don't take vitamin pills, they'll likely do you more harm than good.

The reason why antibacterial cleaners and sterile environments are bad (day to day, not in hospitals) is because you need your immune system to be primed, particularly through childhood. Our body is covered in bacteria, and we need them, because most are harmless and outcompete other harmful microorganisms.

Diseases such as asthma may becoming increasingly common because of our lifestyles and obsession with cleanliness. Children's immune systems develop oversensitivity to other organisms and particles in the environment, because of the lack of immune system priming. We need to get sick, it's normal and it's what our bodies need.

The overuse of antibiotics is real and serious. It is coming to a head now. The reason you've heard so much about it over the past 10-20 years is because the result was entirely predictable because of our understanding of evolutionary processes. In the past there was always another stronger antibiotic but we are running out of options now.