to be really annoyed about antibiotics?

[WaterfallsOver]

Or rather their misuse. I have parent friends who run to the GP every time little Billy has a cough, demanding antibiotics, so many people see them as a panacea. I'm not medically trained but I know they don't work on viruses and many illnesses need to run their course with no medical intervention.

The news is telling us antibiotics won't work in a few years due to over/misuse. I feel really angry that selfishness and stupidity mean in a few years people may die from infections resistant to antibiotics :( if they were only used for serious illness perhaps we'd have a chance. There was a guy who died from resistant infection on the news :(

oh yeah and they stole their dna discovery off a woman. RIP Rosalind Franklin.

But cote - apart from someone talking about using an onion to have a bash at an ear infection (and I don't think she was suggesting using an onion for a hospital acquired infection leading to organ failure - I'm not even sure whether she was using the onion or just reporting it as a folk remedy) there hasn't been much suggestion of replacing antibs with CAM (or onions). A lot of the discussion was around things like onions or garlic having an active ingredient that might be able to be harnessed. Mention of tea tree oil led to much muttering about woo when there have been clinical trials looking into its potential use. I think suggesting that there has been a serious push by anyone on this thread to get people trying an onion sat on a shelf rather than antibiotics is a bit misleading tbh.

Although I suppose of antbs stop working in a widespread way then people will be trying onions or garlic or whatever.

I absolutely agree that misuse is a waste of time and those that "demand" antibiotics for coughs & colds and the like are selfish.
GPs perhaps need to toughen up on those who "demand" & absolutely refuse rather than go for an easy life.
That said I am taking my Little Billy to the GP later and will suggest antibiotics myself - 12 months ago he was in hospital with pneumonia & viral meningitis & since then has had 3 lots of antibiotics for chest infections. Given that we could have lost him last year I refuse to take any chances of being fobbed off with "it's a virus" & letting another chest infection get hold and hospitalise him.

That said if the GP says his chest is clear & carry on with the Calpol I won't be demanding anything.

As I said earlier, Linus Paulin made a significant contribution to molecular biology and got a nobel prize,He also got another Nobel prize- I think for peace.

He also talked bollocks about vitamin c.

These are not mutually exclusive.

Good grief poor Rosalind Franklin and she died so young too, very sad.

Could I just point out here that farm animals in the UK are not all routinely given antibiotics, not least because they are very expensive

Our beef cattle are only prescribed antibiotics when the situation merits them - for example, for lameness or for a pneumonia outbreak in the calves. Antibiotics have a strict withdrawal requirement before the animal can be sent to slaughter

Dairy cattle are not routinely prescribed them either - those used to treat mastitis require strict withdrawal periods and dairy companies taking milk test for antibiotic residues. Put milk in the tank which is showing these residues and you receive a stiff fine as the milk all has to be discarded

I would also point out that it is permitted to use antibiotics in organic production and organic producers do where the situation requires it. There are extended withdrawal periods in these scenarios.

Where there is an issue is in the intensive poultry and pig sector. These animals are kept in large groups in close proximity and routine antibiotic treatment via feed is used to control disease. This is the only way to produce chicken and pork very cheaply and still make a margin

And here's the thing - those production systems only exist because large sections of society want to spend the absolute minimum in food, encouraged by supermarkets which screw suppliers as hard as possible on cost. Blaming farmers for this is blaming the effect rather than the cause

Original agree absolutely. And it is so expensive to buy good quality well farmed meat. I try to buy the rspca approved sainsburys range of chicken, but no idea if they are fed antibiotics routinely, hopefully not.

I tried to buy an outdoor reared joint of pork and it was a tenner. Can't do that regularly.

it is the supermarkets' fault though, they just want to make as much profit as possible.

Yes agree original.

I have been rather reluctant t eat turkey after doing some work based on a turkey farm. The rearing conditions were grim.

I don't think it's worth worrying about antibiotics really. You can't actually do anything about it other than not get ill or take the whole course when you do have to have them. It's up to doctors whether the prescribe them, it's up to pharmaceutical companies to research new drugs. Sorry, it's not on my to-do list!

i have noticed turkey particularly cheap at sainsbury's.

pharmas don't develop them Filyjonk. And doctors often over prescribe them, especially internationally.

My response when people have concerns about the cost of higher welfare meat to to eat less - I'd rather see people eat less, but British and high welfare/extensively produced, meat than eat cheap (and very often foreign) meat every day. No one needs to eat meat every day, and I say that as a beef producer!

The very cheap poultry you see in supermarkets and which goes into processed meals often comes from places like the far East where there are serious problems with bird flu

My response when people have concerns about the cost of higher welfare meat to to eat less - I'd rather see people eat less, but British and high welfare/extensively produced, meat than eat cheap (and very often foreign) meat every day. No one needs to eat meat every day, and I say that as a beef producer!

Yes, yes and yes to this.

pofaced I have cleared up a sinusy flu with turmeric BTW, something to try!! Of course its only been used for thousands of years in India so you may not want to

pharmas don't develop them Filyjonk. And doctors often over prescribe them, especially internationally.

Still nothing I can do about it though is there?

CAM is absolutely fantastic at treating time limiting illnesses. If you gargle with garlic, it takes about 5 days to clear up a cold, I believe.

The problem is filly so gps see them as the easy option. On 3 occasions I have taken asthmatic DS to the gp knowing he needed steroids but he has come out with antibiotics instead - each time he has been in a and e within 24 hours and told he has no infection and just needs a course of steroids (or by that point steroids and oxygen)

Too many people expect antibiotics for everything, too many doctors will give them.

turmeric mentioned here ppeat as something worth investigating. Also seemed to be some work done on China on turmeric sprays

Blimey a quick search on pubmed for turmeric and it's quite the wonder drug. :heads to Sainsburys:

olgaga - I often grow haemophilius influenzae which amoxycillin is supposed to treat as broad spectrum. It doesn't do anything for me however, so if it's this bug I get given clarithromycin et al. I don't really get why, but consultants have said to me overuse of an ab means it can no longer be efficacious - it's one reason why I've been prescribed rolling programmes of prophylactics in the past - so one month of doxy, one of amoxy, one of azithro etc etc.
I usually grow pseudomonas now hence cipro.

There is quite a lot of research into all kinds of ethnomedicine, including turmeric. A friend of mine did his PhD in natural product chemistry on medicinal plants used on his native Pacific island. There is lots of work done on traditional Chinese medicine (with one of the purposes being trying to save certain species from extinction by providing an alternative). Manuka oil and honey have all been intensively studied, it seems Vit C is investigated and if it lives up to its supposed promise it will eventually be accepted as a form of treatment. Alternatives aren't completely ignored, but I suppose once they are fully investigated and accepted they aren't alternatives anymore. Then they are just medicine.

Hm maybe it would be wise to not to be automatically dismissive of alternatives then.

When ds1 was first diagnosed with severe autism we told his then paediatrician that we had him on a gluten free and cow's milk free diet. Well, you would have thought we'd said we were dancing naked under the full moon chanting healing remedies given his reaction (which we ignored).

Fast forward a decade and his paediatrician and neurologist asked us whether we'd ever thought of trying a gluten and/or casein free diet as they had been found to be helpful in some cases.

Now while I wouldn't have expected the first paediatrician to overstate the potential usefulness of a gfcf diet his response was very anti indeed. Had we listened to him then we would have had ongoing issues and may well be in a worse situation now (only for something we'd stopped to then be suggested after years more damage).