to be really annoyed about antibiotics?

[WaterfallsOver]

Or rather their misuse. I have parent friends who run to the GP every time little Billy has a cough, demanding antibiotics, so many people see them as a panacea. I'm not medically trained but I know they don't work on viruses and many illnesses need to run their course with no medical intervention.

The news is telling us antibiotics won't work in a few years due to over/misuse. I feel really angry that selfishness and stupidity mean in a few years people may die from infections resistant to antibiotics :( if they were only used for serious illness perhaps we'd have a chance. There was a guy who died from resistant infection on the news :(

that is interesting Elenor. Wonder if they ever moved onto human trials, or didn't get funding.

I will have get DP who is geneticist to plough through papers. As a engineer I find the terminology unfamiliar and difficult.

Our GP told me to use arnica after my CS. Over Christmas I burned my hand on an unfamiliar oven and my SIL sprayed Rescue Remedy onto it. I was very skeptical but it did seem to stop it hurting.

Blimey pofacedplot just found this
Sepsis Facts

"Sepsis is common and often deadly. It remains the primary cause of death from infection, despite advances in modern medicine like vaccines, antibiotics, and intensive care. Often misunderstood as ?blood poisoning?, sepsis today is one of the leading causes of death around the world.

Sepsis arises when the body?s response to an infection damages its own tissues and organs. It can lead to shock, multiple organ failure, and death, especially if it is not recognized early and treated promptly. Between one-third and one-half of all sepsis patients die. In developing countries, sepsis accounts for 60-80% of all deaths. It kills more than 6 million infants and young children, and 100,000 new mothers every year.

Sepsis causes more deaths each year than prostate cancer, breast cancer and HIV/AIDS combined. An estimated 18 million people contract sepsis every year."

More funding is definitely needed!

jimjams - I'm sorry you thought I was being disingenuous. That wasn't my intention.

"No-one is suggesting replacing antibiotics with a cut up onion."

I think you missed the post where MrsTwgtwf said "I personally would never say to a doc: no thanks to the anti-biotics, I'm going to use a cut onion. I would just say: I'm going to tough it out, thanks" which I understood to mean that she was indeed talking about replacing antibiotics with a cut onion.

In any case, people are actually talking about onions curing diseases by "attracting" bacteria. My point is that there is no possible way this can work, since bacteria have no means of travelling from the infected person to some corner of the room where one might leave a cut onion, even if they could somehow detect the presence of said onion there, which they can't.

Manuka honey was prescribed for my dog's cut paw, worked wonders. You have to be careful though, not all manuka honey is active, so the manuka honey you can buy at tesco is probably just expensive sugar.....

I think jimjams knows that Cote I am in similar position at moment, having probable sinus infection that is lasting over 2 weeks, but reluctant to go get antibiotics, which may well clear it up.

Elenor - who would fund it though? You can't patent vitamin c so no one interested in funding it, can't make a profit from it.

And I think Linus Pauling has given vitamin c a very bad name!

Exactly there's no profit in it.
Also what scientist would like to put their neck on the line, given the mauling a genius like Pauling received?

I personally knew someone who died because of her belief in homoeopathy. She refused ABs in hospital for an infected toe, insisting on only using homoeopathic medicines, ended up with multiple organ failure and death. Bloody sad because apart from her weird medical beliefs she was a really nice lady.

"Also what scientist would like to put their neck on the line, given the mauling a genius like Pauling received?"

I'm not a fan of Linus Pauling, or homeopathy. Bit of critical thinking needed to separate science from woo. Elenor's link about research with intravenous vitamin c, given early in sepsis in mice, was interesting and valid. It is actually being tested in human clinical trials here as a complementary rather than alternative treatment.

It is a long way from that to homeopathy for severe illness without any conventional treatment.

sorry link here to trial

Well tbh for many ear infections you might as well cut up an onion as take antibiotics. (It was the paediatricians in the hospital who were very anti antibs for ear infections and a bit scathing of GP's prescribing them).

I think the attack on CAM is a missing the point tbh. There isn't a big push to replace antibiotics with CAM (albeit scientists and clinicians are beginning to investigate whether folk remedies can be used in some way) - the issue is that we may be returning to a pre-antibiotic era. Andrew Read's headline figure is that in 2011 about 100,000 Americans died of infections that were easily curable 20 years ago. I assume that's as a result of hospital acquired infections.

There's no point sneering at CAM, this isn't about CAM. The issue is that if you go into hospital to have a simple op and pick up a drug resistant infection while in there- then the hospital may have no treatment options for you. That is already happening some UK stories here mrsaactionuk.net/enherts051010.html
Of course cleanliness etc can reduce the levels of MRSA, but this has evolved because of misuse of antibiotics. This 'Bad Bugs No Drugs' report form the Infectious Diseases Society of America makes interesting & worrying reading. Whether people are using onions or whatever is irrelevant, the choice may be trying your luck with an onion or nothing.

sorry should have said 'often as a result of hospital acquired etc'

yep - interesting that chief medical officer Dame Sally Field said not enough incentives for drug companies to develop new antibiotics as they are not profitable enough - they are only used for short periods of time. she said
''"We haven't as a society globally incentivised making antibiotics. It's quite simple - if they make something to treat high blood pressure or diabetes and it works, we will use it on our patients every day.

"Whereas antibiotics will only be used for a week or two when they're needed, and then they have a limited life span because of resistance developing anyway."
here

What is "CAM"?

The impact of Linus Pauling on Molecular Biology by Frances Crick
(In 1953, James D. Watson and Francis Crick suggested what is now accepted as the first correct double-helix model of DNA structure in the journal Nature.)

"I am here tonight to talk about Linus Pauling. He was a very great scientist. He was in his time the world's leading chemist."

"How should we summarize Linus' contribution? I do not think, as I said earlier, that it is right to discuss the impact of Linus Pauling on molecular biology. Rather, he was one of the founders of molecular biology. It was not that it existed in some way, and he simply made a contribution. He was one of the founders who got the whole discipline going."

or a quack if you will

Oh that's interesting - so there's no point investing in the development of new drugs because resistance will evolve anyway.

So we're back to completely rethinking how we use antibiotics and really valuing them.

jimjams - I understand what you are saying re resistance to antibiotics but "might as well try cut onion" is a point that the medical establishment will never come to, so I don't understand why you are repeating it.

CAM = complementary and alternative medicine

No, but they might say 'we have nothing left to try so go and say goodbye'.

My point is that going about someone being stupid because they try an onion is detracting from real issue - which is people are dying from infections that were easily treatable 20 years ago and the numbers will increase.

Frances Crick also said our dna was delivered here by intelligent aliens

jimjams - there seems to be not enough financial incentive to develop drugs that one day bacteria will become resistant to - even if they save lives in the process.

James Watson has also said some odd things, but he has interesting and controversial views on why we haven't cured cancer yet.

jimjams - I was under the impression that we are allowed to talk on MN about related subjects that come up during the course of a thread. I understand what you are saying re "the real issue" but do feel that it is not unreasonable to answer the related subjects that people have mentioned on this thread.