to think this is really not on (maternity leave)

[manicinsomniac]

Having a baby, having your full time off, coming back for a month then announcing you're 4 months pregnant and will be off again. If you knew you were pregnant (or even trying) should you really go back to work, knowing that your employer was going to have to pay two salaries for one job?

I really don't know if this is standard practice and completely ok or whether it's unfair and cheating the system. It seems unfair and a bit immoral to me.

'It will become more difficult for women of childbearing ages to get jobs with the current perception on mat leave '

It already is.

Hang on...I'm sure my entitlement would have been less shoud I have gone back to work after DS pregnant with DC2. I think it's only because I've had nine months back there (whilst pregnant) that I'm entitled to the whole enhanced package again. Employers can set any rules with regard to enhanced packages as all they really 'need' to do is offer statutory. And even then I think there's a qualifying period.

Is there not also a case for 'getting it out of the way'? Having children close together could mean you're off for two/three/whatever consecutive stretches but when you return you return and 'mean business'? Just playing devil's advocate...

I think people are forgetting that it is actually illegal for an employer to actively discriminate against a woman on the grounds that they think she might be off on maternity leave.

2048 - sorry for delay replying - dinner and all that.

We weren't ttc but it's a complicated tale! I fell PG by accident (idiotically) when DD1 was 3 months old. I was breast feeding and had sex once. I had a termination which I hated. While we we waiting for my body to settle back down we were using condoms and it broke, so I took the morning after pill. It didn't work . I didn't want another termination so I went back to work pregnant. 2 years after having DD2 we were using natural family planning and I miscalculated my days, still it was 6 days before ovulation, so I took the morning after pull to be sure. Again it didn't work and we ended up with DD3. Since she was born I've had another termination and one miscarriage. One while having the coil. So as you can tell - we are an extremely fertile couple and that brings pregnancy not as planned, and at times inconvenient to us and to our careers!

mylittlepudS, that could work for some businesses but its really difficult for our business in the client facing role. The problem for us is if someone is out of the business on and off for two, three years, it puts their book of business at risk. They have total responsibility for that book and the teams working with them. The knew that when they signed their contract and they fully understood the consequences if they don't retain it. If the business knows they can manage that. Its better than interupted relationships were the employee starts lossing clients and eventually that only leads down one road. This can be really stressful for the person involved and the business. No one wants that and businesses want to retain talent which helps them grow.

Well, there's the hard fought for law on the one hand - you know, the changes that were fought for so that female teachers for example wouldn't be sacked the minute they got married on the presumption of impending maternity?

And then there's the strange smug ideological right-wing shit you sometimes get on MN disguised as 'common sense'.

So does your business offer an enhanced package then LittleChickpea? If it does it is clearly supportive of women choosing to start a family. The business can decide to not offer the enhanced package to women who come back to work pregnant.

Yabu!

Fair enough it might be a bit of a pain but family life has got to come first. You can't put your life on hold just on case you upset a few people in work.

I have a career that I have worked hard to achieve and there would be no way that I would be willing to give that up because it didn't fit in with other people's plans. Jeez people need to get perspective!

littlechick ok so in your line of work someone being off is problematic, it always is.

I don't really see how knowing that someone is ttc would help you manage that situation. The pregnant woman needs to let you know she is pregnant by week 25 (I think but could very easily be wrong) but typically you find out sooner than that. That gives you time to put measures in place to manage the workload.

Unless you plan to fire the poor woman who dares to ttc again I don't see how this ttc disclosure will help.

No business has to offer an enhanced package. The State (ie the taxpayer) pays SMP.

Our business will work with the woman and man (if they choose to stay at home long term rather than the woman) to ensure they get the support the need and we don't place business at risk. Sometime this may be moving into an equivalent role or some other solution (no pay cuts or demontions involved) but different responsibilities with a long term transition back into their original role if that's what they want. But to do this we need time and we need honest open communication with people. We have a high retention rate and very long term on employees. The worst thing that can happen to us is short notice communication.

Does it offer an enhanced mat leave package though?

littlechick

So you would consider 15 weeks short notice. To be fair I think you have a point about that. Typically though you have about 5/6 months to plan.

Is that enough time?

You get standard ML package. What's your point/query on that?

I think the point was that a family would very soon be bankrupt if they kept have a baby working a couple of months and then going off again.

Statutory mat leave isn't a lot of cash.

WhenSheWasBad taking into account it's difficult to get the right people in our sector generally for these types of specific roles (near impossible on temp contracts) 5/6 mouths is challenging. So we find out, start recruiting/looking for a replacement, say takes a month maybe two, offer the job, security checks (maybe another month). The general notice period for these people is 6 months so they can't join us for six months following their resignation. it could be 8/9 months to find a suitable replacement.

Oh then don't forget they then need to get into the business and start getting their head round the book of business this can take another 3 months... It's not easy..

By standard maternity package you mean what the Gov pays? What line of work are you in?

My point is if your company offers an enhanced package then it clearly doesn't share your view.

Do you have children? What did you earn whilst on mat leave? The pay you get from the Government is around £120 a week.

Expat I'm not criticising people who take less than a year, my point was that the length of ML available to couples is not what is always actually taken, so it's not the norm for employers to lose staff for the full year.
As to whether others can afford it or not, well that all depends doesn't it - we continue living in our small flat, have friends who chose larger houses who therefore have to go back sooner to meet the mortgage - I consider myself lucky to have a good line of credit and a job to return to.

Ok I get it that is tough. Your solution is still mad though. If I was employed by you I would have had to inform you in Jan 2012 that I was intending to start ttc again as soon as I got my period back (disappeared due to bf).

I only started ovulating again in April. Got pregnant but had an early mc. Got pregnant another 2 times but it was chemical pregnancy both times. Stopped trying at the end of the year as it was emotionally getting too much for me. Started trying in the new year and am only just pregnant again.

So from the employers point if view you would have been recruiting my replacement 22 months ahead of when they were actually required.
From my point of view the absolute worst time and most intimate time of my life would be common knowledge.

MyLittlePuds, firstly it's a little bit off side to ask what my ML is/would be. That's no ones business. We are advisors working with national, multi national and global companies in every industry sector.

By standard I mean what the Gov pays.

I am pregnant and will be going back after six weeks, not because of the money but because I have responsibilities at work that I would find difficult to just leave. I will be getting the standard Gov ML. Again that's my choice.

It is tough and I am not saying everyone should disclose chapter and verse. I am advocating open communication with employers. How can they be supportive if they are in the dark. I appreciate not all companies are like the one I work for and some are still stuck in 1920 but not everyone is like that.

This isn't about your company supporting a woman who is ttc. Is so you can plan your portfolio management.

I don't think you appreciate how tough it can be for some women to conceive, it could take the poor woman years. Are you going to provide that woman the same employment protection as you would a pregnant woman for 2 years?

WhenSheWasBad, You are assuming that I don't understand how difficult ttc can be. You don't know that now do you?

And yes it is so we can protect our clients and manage the portfolio but it's also to ensure that the person has all options avalable to them and they make informed choices on what they want. Content And happy people make for a better working environment.

No littlechick I don't know sorry. I was assuming you had not considered it much as it sounded like you would start recruiting as soon as some told you they were ttc.

Even in your business recruiting 2 years ahead of schedule seems a bit much.

The employment protection issue still stands. I am assuming it would be necessary to offer a ttc woman the same rights as a pregnant woman.