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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is really not on (maternity leave)

358 replies

manicinsomniac · 01/03/2013 17:54

Having a baby, having your full time off, coming back for a month then announcing you're 4 months pregnant and will be off again. If you knew you were pregnant (or even trying) should you really go back to work, knowing that your employer was going to have to pay two salaries for one job?

I really don't know if this is standard practice and completely ok or whether it's unfair and cheating the system. It seems unfair and a bit immoral to me.

OP posts:
FayKnights · 03/03/2013 23:01

I did this to my employer. We were TTC for 5 years, I then had 2 children in very quick succession. Perhaps not ideal for my employer at the time, but now my children are older I remain loyal and hardworking to the company for treating me so well when I needed it most.

harverina · 03/03/2013 23:02

I don't think that there are many women playing the system as it has been put. I think most people are just trying to juggle being mums, partners and having a career and that's not easy. They have to make decisions that are best for their family. It would be very different if women were still having babies in their late teens and early twenties.

Someone mentioned that they are going back to work early as they have responsibilities. Not judging you but the biggest responsibility you will ever have in life is your children. My work is very important to me, I love my job, I take it very seriously and give a lot to my employer. I am a loyal member of staff. But at the end of the day, my dd and family life is number 1 priority over anything else.

harverina · 03/03/2013 23:06

Sorry littlechickpea but you are beginning to sound like a company handbook!

It is no ones business if a women is ttc! It is far too intimate to be sharing with your employer and so sad that this is what people are thinking. We are talking about real live people here!

edam · 03/03/2013 23:09

Littlechickpea, have you got any children, or is this your first?

foreverondiet · 03/03/2013 23:19

Its a bit strong to say "its not on". And I would say its totally fine for someone who has been in a job for a while before the first maternity leave. I have twice got pregnant in the first year of employment of a new job. Not ideal but some women can't time these things to suit work.....

However some companies do end up paying 2 salaries, as they pay enhanced maternity pay (which can't be claimed from the government) and then the cost of hiring a temp.

LittleChickpea · 03/03/2013 23:24

It's my first and I probably do sound like a hand book. But there aren't many people on here looking at it from the employers prospective and we need a balanced view.

I hear people talk about equal employment rights which I fully support. This is my personal view. With equal rights come employment responsibilities.

It was me that said I woul be going back after six weeks but I have responsibilities and have no intention of letting those go. To be fair of my close friends three went back after six/ten weeks and two became full time stay at home mums. Horses for courses.

Yfronts · 03/03/2013 23:26

I think it's just life. Some women have kids 10 years apart, others have kids 10 months apart. In the long term it doesn't really matter which as the total maternity leave is the same.

FantasticMax · 03/03/2013 23:28

I'd feel guilty if I took two mat leaves in fairly quick succession, although I know logically the company has the same outlay each time

Well then don't do it, but don't claim it's immoral for others to when it's clearly not so.

Just checking back in on this thread - nowhere did I 'claim' it was immoral, I just said I'd feel guilty about doing it. Don't put words in my mouth. Hmm

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHopeful · 03/03/2013 23:30

littlechick I hope your child sleeps better than mine did. Otherwise you are so screwed Smile.

Best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy.

FierceBadIggi · 03/03/2013 23:32

Littlechickpea you don't know what kind of delivery you will have (I wish you a very easy one). You don't know if your baby will have any health problems at all (again, I wish you the healthiest of children). After even a routine c-section you might struggle to return to some jobs within the 6 week time span you have in mind. Your post does sound rather one-sided, with no mention of the baby really at all!

edam · 03/03/2013 23:33

Littlechick, I hope you have a very healthy rest of your pregnancy, a safe delivery and a healthy new baby. Some things in life are just more important than the next business objective or major new strategy.

Perhaps your views may change when you have some first-hand experience of childbirth and early parenthood.

Finally, companies and the economy need women to have babies in order to produce consumers and workers. Do you have any idea how much parents spend?!

harverina · 03/03/2013 23:38

Yes of course we need a balanced view. However most women would not feel able to return to work after 6 weeks even if they wanted to - Breastfeeding (if that is how u choose to feed) is barely established, you are barely getting any sleep at all and are most likely feeling totally overwhelmed!

However this isn't what the thread is about.

Maybe women should just give up any dreams of having a family and a career! The reason that we have better maternity benefits is in recognition of the important role that women play in industry/business whilst also recognising that they need time with their babies.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 03/03/2013 23:39

Thousands and thousands, edam

Sad
MrsJackAubrey · 03/03/2013 23:53

I own and run a small business. It isn't the money that is the issue the govmt does pay SMP. It's replacing the staff member with a maternity cover that hurts. Someone who has to childmind big projects the woman was leading on, who needs inducting before they are at full speed, who is jittery because of the nature of the job, will the woman come back or not. Recruiting a mat cover is time consuming and expensive, about 1500 for any advert route inc. Internet ads. Time taken to interview, communicate with all candidates... It's a pain in the arse. I would be pretty pissed off with the situation described by the OP tbh.

LittleChickpea · 03/03/2013 23:54

It's been an interesting discussion. It's good to have a forum where these emotive debates can take place.

mylittlepuds · 04/03/2013 07:21

Little chickpea you have judged women for 'playing the system' - you will find that motherhood comes with lots of judgement...and although you say financial constraints mean you have to go back to work after six weeks it's something you will be judged on. "she could manage without" "what's more important" etc etc etc etc

Perhaps you'll find you're more tolerant once becoming a parent - now seeing just how hard it is I am certainly more open minded. Unbelievably so. I 'didn't believe' in people taking time off work for depression/stress before I had children. Funnily enough after suffering PND I do now.

Congrats on the baby - it's quite a journey this motherhood thing Smile

LittleChickpea · 04/03/2013 07:52

Thanks Littlepids. Certainly motherhood may change my attitude on business and career. It didn't hange my friends my friends but it may change me.

I didn't say I was going back because of financial restraints. I am going back because of work commitments. I am very fortunate to be in a position to be able to get child are and work. Not everyone is that fortunate.

My notes have been to try and get people to see this from the employers prospective. Even if it has made me rather unpopular Wink

MrsJackAubrey I totally understand where you are coming from. This would be a very difficult situation from a small business to manage.

mylittlepuds · 04/03/2013 08:26

Oh God I should imagine it will. Biggest change in my life - massive, massive.

mylittlepuds · 04/03/2013 08:33

Have to say I also shared your view re. Back to back mat leave pre having a baby AND didn't 'believe in' surprise babies until it happened to me.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHopeful · 04/03/2013 09:26

mrsjack it does sound very hard for a small business. One benefit a lot of businesses get is they pay women less. Pay gap is around 15%.

So overall even when you include your extra costs for covering mat leave the business still pays less for a woman than a man.

LessMissAbs · 04/03/2013 12:04

YABU to imply that only unemployed or casually employed women should be encouraged to have children.

YABU because maternity cover provides an excellent way of getting work experience for less experienced employees than would have otherwise been possible.

YABU not to restrict your comments to smaller businesses with say less than 20 employees and to encourage more progressive employment law change.

YABU because plenty of employees get away withnot pulling their weight in the workplace for all sorts of reasons, and at least pregnancy and birth are legitimate ones.

I speak having just been contracted to cover the cover the work of a male employee whose wife had a baby in December and who is struggling to cope, but who is still drawing a full time salary.

timeforgin · 04/03/2013 12:31

Oh LittleChickpea - please come back and read this thread when your baby is five weeks old, I would be really interested to know whether your thoughts have changed.

I work for a very large company in the city where I have been for almost ten years. They effectively give me the equivalent of 8 months paid maternity leave, and anything after that up until a year is unpaid. This is obviously incredibly generous - let me tell you that it is generous for a reason, they ask an awful lot of their senior employees.

I came back in September after one year of mat leave, and I will shortly be telling them that I am pregnant with #2, and I want to start my mat leave earlier this time (mid July perhaps).

Do I feel guilty? A little bit, but I don't know if I should. I have worked incredibly hard for them for ten years, late nights (sometimes all night) and sometimes weekends, sacrificed any amount of personal commitments and done whatever they have asked of me. It is incredibly difficult to do my job as a working mother (they rejected my flexible hours request but I have an unofficial arrangement where I can leave at 5pm to relieve the nanny, then I continue to work - for however long is rqeuired - after the baby is in bed at 7pm) and every single day is a battle. I am completely exhausted all of the time.

Do I feel guilty about my contractual and statutory entitlement? Am I going to wait to have another child (I am early thirties) because it might not suit them? Erm no I'm not.

timeforgin · 04/03/2013 12:34

PS by the way I am fully aware the situation is in practice quite different for large companies compared to smaller ones. My father owns and runs a small business, and when they have people go on maternity leave, the costs and practicalities of getting a temp are massive considerations and a relatively large line item for the year. Would he think that women should plan their families to fit in with his accounting / business needs? No he wouldn't.

Women have babies. They also often need to work. Companies, large and small need to accomodate this.

MrsKeithRichards · 04/03/2013 12:43

I work in a small-ish team (14 people) and in the past 4 years there's been 2 women on maternity (myself being on of them) and 2 men on adoption leave.

My friend shared her maternity entitlement with her husband, she took 6 he took 3 after her.

Slowly but surely it's levelling out just a teeny little bit.

SPBInDisguise · 04/03/2013 13:09

" I don't understand why some people do not want to have open and honest dialogue with their employers about this. Honest, open communication always results in gaining respect and trust with the employer."

Bloody hell that's naive. Not always no. I've had lovely bosses who I could trust with this sort of stuff. I've also ad some who would be using this info to screw me over. I consider myself to be one of the luckier ones.