...to feel slightly annoyed when people claim to be "living in poverty"

[ihateconflict]

...and have huge TVs/smoke/drink/have a holiday abroad each year/wear designer clothes and shoes and handbags, and have all the latest electronic gadgets. In contrast, as a "middle class" (hate this label) professional living in an expensive area, i cant afford any of the above (dont smoke or drink, so dont include those). We havent had any holiday for 5 years, let alone one abroad. AND, when DCs were at school, their friends with EMA allowance were the ones who had driving lessons for their 17th birthday, and cars for their 18th birthday. My DCs had to pay for own driving lessons, and didnt get cars until they finished uni and were earning. I am full of sympathy for those in "genuine" poverty, but somewhere priorities and definitions seem a bit wrong

There is genuine poverty in the UK. I'd suggest that being down to your last few quid and really not knowing where the next lot is coming from counts. I can see where the OP is coming from too - if people can afford luxuries they are not in poverty. They may not be rolling in it - they may have saved up for that widescreen TV and that holiday - but they're not in poverty.

I don't think I'm unusual, everyone's really struggling at the moment, even the rest of my family who all work, the whole country's in this same boat aren't we :/

Perhaps because most people have credit cards/overdraft/bank loans they can survive slightly better, but I have never had that option (nor do I intend to).

My debt accumulated as I have never had credit cards or loans, so for the past 5 years when my first baby was born and I moved onto benefits, every time I moved rented house Ihad to take a social fund loan out to pay the bond/advance/moving costs, around £1300 each time. I also 'lemt' the children's father around £2000 when I first met him. He never intends to repay that, and he can well afford it (we left due to DV issues, he considers that money his now).

The utili bills are auto deducted at source befor I receive the benefits, they take a whopping amount out. I'll look into Fuel Direct, Thankyou, justgettingonwithit' in case their repayment terms are more forgiving.

Luckily when my son starts Reception uniform is just red and grey, and I do see plenty of school wear in charity shops. I don't think they have compulsory school logo wear required.

I think it's shoes that are the problem, every parent's nightmare I expect! I tried the cheap synthetic shoes from Shoezone, etc and they last a month before e Velcro snaps or they're so scuffed the welfare officer would be onto me for neglect! So there's no choice but a pair of £30 Clarks leather shoes every few terms. Thinkers like that, their father has no idea how much Id appreciate a Clarks voucher for, or of he could buy them a pair of new shoes every so often.

Anyway, real poverty is on a sliding scale I suppose. I am literally sat at home and can't do/go/travel anywhere until tomorrow when the child benefit is paid in, not a nice feeling of being trapped. But I can take my son to nursery, free thanks to the government, and to the park, and I have milk/fruit vouchers until he is age 4 (although I use them up in the first week of issue, I receive 4 a month), so I am never at the point I can't actually feed the children.

The point is, I did work prior to children, so my home has nice Laura Ashley curtains and some antique furniture, things I could sell if I really hit rock bottom, but the thought of sitting here with no curtains or furniture or piano or tele, would not improve my situation - there are so many debts that it would just be selling them off and making little headway, then I'd have to buy more new furniture and curtains anyway, plus the resale value of these things is negligible really (not everyone's taste in curtains and dark wood furniture is very unpopular).

So if people think I am not really in poverty because my home is comfortable looking, I respectfully ask them to consider my bank's text message statement each morning, which shows me almost £500 overdrawn with £1.26 to spend.

I haven't been naughty, just bad at budgeting, and had bad luck. I cannot wait to get back to work and earn (although it will be barely more than my benefits income I suspect with my qualifications and childcare costs). I'm 44 and have worked all my life. I never dreamt I would end up this poor.

Sometimes being poor means you may have a satellite subscription yes, (you're tied into that contract after all) or you may smoke or socialise at the weekend, but for the grace of (insert your preferred god or non-god!) for all we know that may be their one small pleasure that keeps their head above water, as the rest of their life starts crumbling around them. We all need something to hang onto to keep us sane.

I genuinely wouldn't wish my situation on anyone, but I have a horrible feeling
I'm not unusual, sadly :(

Actually I suppose my pay as you go Internet at £15 a month is a luxury, but I do use this to research jobs, careers, email benefits agencies, school allocations, etc etc cheaper than a landline. Another thing I can't afford that people take for granted, a blimmin' landline !
So I hold my hands up, my Internet is a luxury.

I have known real hardship OP and decided that my passion was working with and for vulnerable and hard to reach client groups. My current post is a project manager within a not for profit charity and as part of my role I often support families living in poverty .

Let me educate you a little in the realities of some people's lives.

The people you describe exist to an extent but there is always a back story. Those expensive gadgets are most likely HP from unscrupulous lenders such as Brighthouse, Perfect Home etc. and the weekly payments will come with an extortionate APR. Why do people go down this road if they can't afford it? It's probably the only option open to them and why shouldn't their DC have gadgets for Christmas/ birthdays etc? There is also an element of social culture attached. Some people may not have a pot to piss in but they want the same lifestyle that they see others enjoying. There is pride involved too. People don't want to be seen as not providing the same luxuries that everyone else seems to enjoy but and it's a big but, they will most likely be drowning in debt, have door step lenders coming every week and unfortunately, they may also be borrowing from unlicensed loan sharks.

It all seems manageable to start with and then it spirals. It's not nice to meet someone whom is being hounded by lenders and who hasn't slept in weeks with the worry of it all.

Nothing will change until people on low wages and benefits are able to access better credit.

Try to empathise with people, OP. It is human to judge, however, when you find yourself doing so, please remind yourself that you do not know the individual circumstances and thank all that is good that you are in a better position!

Snowme, check with your council. Some have a free service to help you with your financial problems and with Debt Relief Order if you need it. As advised, the social loans might not be entirely written off, but possibly reduced. Ditto any debt you may ow to DWP, housing or council tax benefits debt or rent arrears to a social landlord. It also costs £100 to process.

Try moneysavingexpert's website, too, the forum is a great source of resources.

Snow don't you dare talk about being "bad at budgeting". It is really, really bloody hard to budget if you have bugger all cash. And whilst you probably won't die for lack of Internet, I do think that these days it is pretty essential if you want to access so very many things. There will be people who'll describe it as a luxury - who will spend more than that a month on takeawy coffee or pairs of tights without batting an eyelid.

MrsD 'I am not talking about YOU, I mean those other ones'. How many times have I heard that. It's tiresome, isn't it.

"Chocolate why don't you try to stop trying to prove to everyone how hard you had it.

You grew up poor. I get it. So did I.
For me it has given me a greater compassion for those who are still poor, not less.

I would also point out that you were a child, not the adult trying to deal with feeding a family and buying the lecky.

Do you really think it feels the same? Living in poverty and having loving parents who will do what they need to act as a buffer is very different from being that parent who has to be that buffer.

I find it odd that you make so much of your cold water flat childhood living about t'shop

yet you have so little empathy for those in the same and worse situations.

Maybe swop those rose coloured nostalgia specs for something clearer and ask your mum just how much fun it was to be skint and a have a family to feed."

I don't know where that response came from? I am nit trying "to prove" anything - i merely told you i was one of the kids you are decribing who are in "poverty" as you took it upon yourself to describe me as some posh kid back from a gap year. I was merely pointing out i was a poor kid but NOT in poverty. I had a roof over my head, clothes to wear, food to eat, a bed to sleep in, a school to go to, i could get healthcare when i needed it. We didn't have the luxury things because we were poor but none of that describes someone in poverty. I don't see how you cannot see the difference?

Who said i have no empathy for being who are poor? If you read my posts you will see (or have convieniently egnored) i have described the difference of being poor and being in poverty and at the same time said thank god we don't have poverty in this country, thank god we have a buffer for people who haven't the money to pay in but can still have free healthcare, free schools and free money so they don't die on the streets in poverty. Thank god our country has a buffer for the poor because no where else in the world help those less fortunate more than we do. I have never once said it is a bad thing because i have every empathy for the poorer people in this country and i am glad there is a safety net for them unlike any other country in the world.

I know how hard it was for my mother, no rose tinted glasses needed there. But then she brought us up in a time when if it came to spending a much needed fiver on electric or a trip to Alton towers for us, the electric came first, that was just the attitude people had then - essential before luxury.

Snow, i can empathise with what you have said there. Social pressure to be "seen" with the right things is a big problem in society that has stemmed from the 70s when people started to gain material goods and used them as a sign of how well off they were. The trouble is this has gotten out of control with people still thinking they need to keep up this show of what they have and more often then not get into debt doing so. When you said...

"Nothing will change until people on low wages and benefits are able to access better credit."

... i don't agree with that at all. I think the last thing people need is more credit, better or not, it is the attitude of society that needs to change with this need to gain material goods and keep up with the jones. People will always need credit for white goods and essentials of course but the problem won't change until people no longer feel under pressure to use credit to gain luxury goods and gadgets to keep up a front.

LaQ that makes perfect sense. When I lost my job 4 years ago and 2/3 of our household income in one go we were terrified. Yes we had lovely things in our house and no we weren't 'poor' but we couldn't afford to pay the mortgage and had to strip everything right back to the essentials.

One persons huge flat screen telly is anothers nice dinner once in a while

Snowme, I notice that you have a piano, so guess that you can play. Can you teach piano to earn some money? Round here the going rate is £24 an hour and it could be something that would fit in around school/pre-school.

Snowme you need to sell the piano, buy a HUGE TV and get your ass judged. Then you will be proper poor like

I do believe it was I whom you are taking your quotes from Chocolate.

The is that people from all walks of life will access credit for whatever purposes. Instead of the poorer being disqualified from accessing credit with lower APR, they will continue to be forced to take the only routes open to them.

Oh and despite those 'fabulous' buffers, there are children living in poverty in the uk. It's not only about money, it's about education, opportunities et al!

Oh I see now, Itsall is now Snow

MrsDeVere - i do not understand why you are being so nasty to me just because i am pointing out the difference of being poor and being in poverty. There is no such thing as "a golden era." My point about Alton towers was i doubt the class of 30 kids' parents could afford the trip, but in this day and age luxury has been brought in as the norm so it is likely some parents have chosen the luxury over an essential purely out of pressure from our society to be seen to be afloat with everything - which is wrong.

You know nothing of my situation to possibly comment on what i do/don't have so i don't see why you are making assumptions.

'But then she brought us up in a time when if it came to spending a much needed fiver on electric or a trip to Alton towers for us, the electric came first, that was just the attitude people had then - essential before luxury.'

The assumption that everyone who is poor is in their state because of frivolous spending on luxuries in erroneous and lazy, but easier than facing an inconvenient truth that many are truly poor and in poverty, and their numbers will grow, all whilst record profits are announced by companies providing the fuel and energy.

Also, my mother didn't shield us from anything, When you live in a one bedroom flat with no much else you tend to know your not floating in gold. We did ask for things like kids do and mum would tell us she had no money, we were very aware which is why we had to do things to amuse ourselves that didn't involve asking mum for money and which is why it was so important when i left school to get a job straight away so i had money to get what i needed.

This website just gets worse this "middle" have no idea how horrid it can be living in poverty. The shiny gadgets very few have are usually on tick and just a distraction from living in an rough situation you know you cant get out of.

My DH and I live in very poor area but i can assure you its nothing to do with class, I am working class and proud but DH is definitely middle class and it disgusts him that people on here still have such ignorant close minded views :(

Expat that is NOT what i was saying at all.