...to feel slightly annoyed when people claim to be "living in poverty"

[ihateconflict]

...and have huge TVs/smoke/drink/have a holiday abroad each year/wear designer clothes and shoes and handbags, and have all the latest electronic gadgets. In contrast, as a "middle class" (hate this label) professional living in an expensive area, i cant afford any of the above (dont smoke or drink, so dont include those). We havent had any holiday for 5 years, let alone one abroad. AND, when DCs were at school, their friends with EMA allowance were the ones who had driving lessons for their 17th birthday, and cars for their 18th birthday. My DCs had to pay for own driving lessons, and didnt get cars until they finished uni and were earning. I am full of sympathy for those in "genuine" poverty, but somewhere priorities and definitions seem a bit wrong

It isn't? Because I see from further posts I am not the only one to construe it as such.

You consistently use your own personal upbringing to moralise and make judgements about poor people today.

People in poverty (even in absolute poverty with no access to education, healthcare etc) have always sometimes prioritised occasional small pleasures over things like heating or the adults having enough food every day. You can read accounts of it in England in Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier or in what's happened with microfinancing in India.

We can't afford to heat our house all winter and the rain comes through my son's bedroom roof and through the wall of our kitchen and bedroom. I still have the Internet because my children's education would suffer hugely without it. Most of their homework is online tests or research.

We also went to Blackpool for two days last Summer. The kids would rather do that than have heating more frequently. Even if we had no Internet and no weekend away, we still couldn't afford enough coal to heat the house every day through winter.

I'm not going to get involved in the poverty vs poor argument, nobody is going to win that, but I would like to agree with those that say "luxury items" aren't indicative of wealth. I have an Ipod that was a birthday present four years ago, a cheap PAYG mobile phone, big leather sofas that we got for free (they were destined for the tip otherwise). A big-ish but old TV (not flat screen), old PC, an XBox...in fact, the Xbox was the only thing I bought new, and that was with Christmas money a couple of years back. Most of it was stuff being slung out by friends and family - nothing wrong with it, but they were getting new stuff. Waste not, want not, as they say.

So the days I go without food so my son can eat, the nights he sleeps in my bed to stay warm because the gas has run out and I'm three days off payday - I'm still not poor, because we have a few luxuries? Without, I'd have a truly miserable existence.

We are lucky enough to live in a country with free healthcare and education, and a welfare system that (mostly) works, but that doesn't mean we don't have real poor. Comparing Britain to a third-world country simply doesn't work, there are very different problems on each side. Similarly, people with moderate to high incomes will not understand the struggle being poor is, unless they have lived it themselves. Not being able to pay for your child's driving lessons is a far cry from not being able to feed them, or bath in hot water. And unfortunately, these things do still happen, particularly to people claiming benefits.

I agree with TheFalconsmistress

Just because someone has a big tv from brighthouse, doesn't mean they don't struggle with money most of the time. We all need some form of entertainment and telly is cheaper than going out anywhere.

The government wants people to claim benefit online when universal credit comes in. The internet is a utility, not a luxury.

Everything is more expensive for the poor.

It's not just the large expenses that are dearer (key meters, Brighthouse, PAYG anything). I was having a bit of a rant about this a while back - stuff like multi and bulk buy deals aren't an option if you're having to choose between loo rolls and a few days' food.

There are ways around it (getting together with family and friends and so on) but realisitically, it's the better off who benefit from them (although in all honesty I don't think anyone actually benefits in the longer term).

I agree - we are "poor" just now, and can't get credit. So whilst i would rather shoot myself in the head than have credit again we are screwed. DPs van has failed the MOT as it has major welding work (he ususally fixes most things himself but doens't have the mig welder!). The van is OLD we paid £300 on it but the only option is to wait until we can afford to get it fixed, even though it may well just pack up completely anyway. We can't get a new(er) van which he really needs for work (self employed carpenter) so he has to use the car - old estate - it doesn't look good for customers so could well be losing work due to it. Car is a lot more thirsty than the van - and also, even if we did get van sorted or buy anotehr cheapo van - DP can't take it to London to work because of the low emmision zone bullshit - if your van is older than 02 you cant take it into most of london. But if you have a chelsea tractor, thats OK . Car is getting ruined, we can't claim the petrol as a work expense as the car is for family use too. If we miss a Direct debit due to DPs erratic work we get penalised. So yes, its definately expensive to be "poor".

And no, we don't have a big tv etc etc, we got into debt because i was ill after birth of DD and we lived off credit cards and got out of our depth.

We have key meters for gas and electric and actually, i must prefer this as we got into terrible trouble with our fuel bills, now we can at least budget. But yes, it infuriates me that we are charged more.

a house has come up for sale near to me and I looked at it on rightmove and if ever rightmove told you a story it was that one and if it wasn't poverty I don't know what it was :(

No Expat it isn't and you took a quote out of context and made it sound like i was blaming poor people's situations on wanting luxuries which is NOT what i have said at all. I haven't said anything against poorer people, all i have done is emperthise with them and have thanked god we don't allow our poorest in society to live in poverty in this country.

I haven't used my own upbringing for anything other than to say the fact i had a roof over my head, food, schooling and healthcare but no luxuries ment i was poor but not in poverty. The same sinareo (sp?) i grew up with is being called poverty these days but for the reasons stated i have said it is poor not poverty.

This doesn't mean i hate the poor or think they are underserving, nor am i blaming them for their situation, i was merely pointing out we have poor and very poor in this country, not poverty. This has somehow been turned into i hate the poor and blame them for their situations

LMAO at internet being a luxury - I NEED my internet connection for mumsnet job searching and actually working on my job that i have just now. Society has become that it is very much an essential and probably one of the only electrical things that i can't live without. Dishwasher will go when it finally dies, although im shit hot at fixing stuff so often can keep electrical stuff going beonig its lifetime! Probably consider dishwasher a luxury item not an esential. Washing machine - essential in today's society, i don't have TIME to stand there handwashing. Tumble dryer - luxury and a croc of shite. TV, luxury and something i should love to be rid of. Kindle - essential .

Smart phone? Actually, an essential i think - i say i think, DP used to have to phone me to google timber merchants etc if working away from home then he'd have to find his way there. Now he just uses "places" to find what he needs and use the satnav to navigate there - but as we have a poor credit rating, it costs us more to have one!

Why are you getting so worked up over semantics Chocolate? I don't think people who can't feed their family properly or heat their homes give a fuck whether they are labelled poor or in poverty - in fact im sure they will be mortified at any sort of label. The thing is, it is sickening that there are people walking around with bags that cost a month salary whilst other people can't feed their kids.

I am sure my 11 yr old has been taught in PHSE that poverty means being without warmth, food or shelter

as I said earlier in the thread I would be in a dire situation without my washing machine and tumble dryer. I have had 4 lots of washing today, atm i have one drying, one waiting to dry and one to wash. During the night I will have one- two more loads and then def one of bedsheets in the morning, one of clothes and then uniform/towels later - it can never be worn once. It's a constant battle keeping my daughter clean because of her disability and yet it's something that most people take for granted. My electric bill is sky high because of this (275 p/m just gone down to 245) and yet I get letters off the dla telling me that the money I get paid in dla for my daughter is spent on her. As of it couldn't be! i really don't get it. Her dla doesn't pay for luxury items or disability equipment, it pays for life and keeping her well and clean :( actually it doesn't even cover it

it would be hypocritical of me to say i wasn't grateful for it though

I grew up in poverty (well until the age of 12 and dad found work which grew into a career) and it was, well, pretty shit.

I remember going on a school trip and having to wear my school uniform as I had no other decent clothes. I was the only child out if 40 to have to do this and it was utterly humiliating.

I can quite understand why some people move heaven and earth to make sure their DCs have a nice pair of trainers. Nobody likes being
the poor kid and no one wants their child to feel shit about themselves.

Moreover, poor people also don't just know other poor people. Their sister/ auntie may well be a hairdresser/nail technician which will explain the nice hair and expensive nails.

Primark is cheap and actually their clothes are OK quality.

The TV might have been a gift. One of my friends is a manager in a department store with a 40% discount, she buys lots of pressies for unemployed DD and granddaughter.

Right. I live on an estate. DP works full time, im off back to work soon (DS 2 years old now). When DS father kindly left me, I had NOTHING and had no choice but to go on benefits. I got income support, child tax credit, child benefit and (to my great relief) my rent paid.

Out of the money I got, I could easily pay gas/electric/water, buy food and bought clothing from charity shops wherever I could. I do not drink and smoke.

People who claim to live in poverty spend their money on SHITE. Sorry, its true. Iv seen people I know are on same benefits as I was back then in the Lidl, buying lager, cider, cheap wines, crisps you name it, crap.

And also, the big screen tvs are on hire purchase which i assume will be around £10 per week or more. You could put that tenner in your electric meter for a week!!

Im not making myself out perfect, some sort of saint, I just Think people spend their benefits on the wrong things.

Its for food, heating, nappies, clothing, bills!! Not booze and cigs!! (L&B are about £& a pack ffs)

£7 a pack correction

Presumably that was for a fairly short period, maid and your washing machine didn't die or your cooker go kaput. Not only that but babies cost pennies to keep compared to older children.

Fox when I was looking l like utter rubbish, my friends clubbed together for my birthday and bought me some Ikea throws for my hideous sofas, cheap tops that fitted and one made me a cool skirt. She also gave me a lovely haircut for free. I'm still grateful 12 years later for that brilliant boost :)

Yes, maid, they all spend their money on shit! EVERY SINGLE PERSON who is in poverty in the UK is in fact an addict on fags, booze and drugs.

I lived in an estate, too. The one in which Trainspotting was set. We weren't on benefits, we worked low-paid jobs.

So did plenty of people there who were in poverty and it wasn't from fags and booze.

Some were, of course. But I can't presume to say that every single person who lived there was spending money on shite. Because I'd be wrong.

you are only allowed in Lidl to buy these things with proof of benefits MrsDeVere.