to point out that formula feeding doesn't necessarily require you to be sterilising bottles and scooping out powder in the middle of the night...

[itsakindarabbit]

Keep seeing this on threads which mention ff...how people couldnt be doing with getting up in the night andstsrilising bottles/making up feeds.

I bf and ff but found ff no problem at night - i would take up a carton of ready made formula and a pre sterilised bottle and i could feed without getting out of bed.

And yes, i know ready made formula is expensive and not everyone uses it. But some of us do/did.

"WHERE has the OP of this thread asked about advice/opinions about breastfeeding at all?"

FFS - see my comment about AIBU.

Very few threads that go on for more than a couple of pages stick rigidly to the questions or themes in the OP. They evolve. That's how this board generally works. My op was a response to other posts that went before. Everything else I've written on this thread has been in response to a comment or a challenge in another post.

"everyone's reasons are different for their method of feeding their baby, so what's the point of judging an individuals choice? Because I'm sure we've all got happy and healthy babies one way or another."

monkeymouse123, the reason human milk banks were set up was in recognition that breastmilk for preterm babies is sometimes lifesaving (mainly because of NEC) and that many mothers with preterm babies struggle to breastfeed or are unable to do it because their baby is so early or so poorly. Luckily, breastfeeding support in the NHS has improved a lot in the last 5 years and many more preterm babies are able to have breastmilk than before. If breastfeeding advocates hadn't pressured for this change to happen and had just thrown up their hands and said 'It doesn't matter how a baby is fed, as long as everyone's happy' then improvements may not have happened, and fewer preterm babies would be leaving hospital in good health than are currently doing so.

Really - this ridiculous focus on 'judging' and women's feelings. Jeeze. Breastfeeding advocates are focused on the issue of why breastfeeding is important to babies, and how as many babies as possible can access the benefits of breast milk. In other words - it's not all about YOU.

I think your new thread will be safe enough detective

It's in the appropriate feeding forum and is clearly just about ff.

This thread clearly was started to challenge the assertion that bf is less faff than ff, the op herself admits that she started the thread in response to this assertion by a poster on another thread. If you reread the first few pages most people make ref to bf, so not just me who reads the op like this (a couple of times op is even accused of deliberately goading and starting a bunfight). Though I was the one accused of being passive aggressive when I suggested that the op could have been more careful in wording her initial post if she didn't want bf brought into the discussion

*I'm honestly, completely sick of people on this thread insisting that voicing concerns about formula amounts to criticising mothers and making a case for a restriction of choice when it comes to how people feed their baby.

It isn't a criticism of mothers.

It doesn't mean that choice should be restricted.

It just doesn't.

Comments like "being told we're defective as parents" are just fucking childish and unfair, because nobody has said this. And you weaken your argument by saying they have. It's a straw man argument which is used to smear and discredit breastfeeding advocacy and it stinks.*

Really - this ridiculous focus on 'judging' and women's feelings. sad Jeeze. Breastfeeding advocates are focused on the issue of why breastfeeding is important to babies, and how as many babies as possible can access the benefits of breast milk. In other words - it's not all about YOU.

Holy moly Shag could you be any more insensitive?

"This thread clearly was started to challenge the assertion that bf is less faff than ff"

AAAAARGGGH

No it wasn't!!!!! It was about powder formula feeding versus cartons!! WHY are you unable to understand that???? Why??? Just why????

"the op herself admits that she started the thread in response to this assertion by a poster on another thread"

NO!!! Wrong again!! I said I started the thread because I saw a reference to a kind of formula feeding at nighttime which, as a formula feeder I DID NOT RECOGNISE!!!!!

Right so how come nearly all the posters who responded in the first few pages have made ref to bf? Your intention was misinterpreted from the start by more than me. I don't have any agenda, don't really care how others feed their babies. I'm just saying that I'm amazed that you didn't think that this thread in Aibu would attract bf comments too. (shrug)

I have already explained this to you once, whathellcall. And you are then coming back onto the thread and misrepresenting my intentions. Why do you keep doing that? What do you hope to gain by insisting that I started this thread to talk about breastfeeding? Even though I have explained to you that I did not???

Fine for people to talk about breastfeeding on here if they want to - just stop saying I started the thread to talk about breastfeeding!!! It was to talk about 2 different types of formula feeding!!

Amazed you can't accept that, just amazed!

Fuck this shit, time for me to dereg once again in the face of the sheer FUCKWITTERY of some of you.

Ta-ra.

Itsakinda I'm sorry if you think that I'm deliberately misinterpreting you, I'm not. I genuinely read the op as an invitation for people to comment on the faff/ease of nighttime feeding whether bf or ff. I think it's a bit unfair then for people to get shouted at for making bf comments. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything said by the more obvious bf advocates, I can see why they may have been drawn to comment on this thread. There is now a formula tips thread in the feeding section, and if it is hijacked by any bf advocates I'd completely understand any subsequent shouting.

itskinda don't flounce love, just hide the thread :)

Don't let the buggers grind you down!

There are lots of people who can see your post for how it was written. Including me. :)

ITS - you don't 'own' the contents of this thread any more than you own' a discussion you start in real life with any large group of strangers. The conversation will go where people want to take it. Posters have engaged with the points I've made; I can only assume they've considered it worth their time to do so, otherwise they would have ignored my posts and carried on discussing the issue in the OP. But they got bored and moved on.

Ok?

Sigh - thedetective my post back there was a strangled yelp of frustration at the inevitable comments on this thread along the lines of 'how very dare you say I'm a bad mother for formula feeding' that are ALWAYS wheeled out as some sort of lame challenge to attempts to defend the view that breastfeeding is important to babies.

It always happens. Always.

So, so boring and pointless.

Back in the 70's when mine were babies I made up a day's supply of bottles every morning and had an electric bottle warmer by the bed. It was very easy for dh to get the bottle and put it in the warmer while I changed baby. I always did it before feeding so that the baby could fall asleep during the feed.
The night feeds only lasted a few weeks anyway. I was unable to bf dd at all and ds only for 2 weeks.

"Really - this ridiculous focus on 'judging' and women's feelings. Jeeze. Breastfeeding advocates are focused on the issue of why breastfeeding is important to babies, and how as many babies as possible can access the benefits of breast milk. In other words - it's not all about YOU. "

I really really hope that you are not some kind of "peer supporter" or "lactation consultant". The thought of you being let anywhere near a vunerable new mother makes my blood run cold, it really does.

When I say unable the problem was blocked milk ducts. I had treatment for cysts for 30 years and eventually developed breast cancer. I honestly don't feel my dc would have /could have been better off bf though I might have.

No they got bored and started a new thread because those who wished to discuss the OP's thread, and not a tangent, would be lost in the posts from yourself and others.

I am a huge huge huge feeding advocate. Please feed your baby. Anyway you choose. As long as everyone is making an informed decision, and safely feeding their babies, that is good for me.

In an ideal world, all babies would be born and feed the way nature intended. Unfortunately, ideal world this is not. We all make our choices based on our own needs. Sometimes we feel it is not a choice - and you can argue and say you always had a choice. You can find ways to say, well, you could have done XYZ instead. Hindsight is a fabulous, fabulous thing. But to the person who had to make the decision at that time, many feel that there was no choice. You can't bloody turn round and tell them different. It is rude, unsupportive, and frankly, nasty.

If, however, you started a thread that discussed the reasons for people stopping or not starting breastfeeding and discussed ways around the obstacles then that would be acceptable. The post your wrote to monkeys was crass and insensitive to mention donor milk? Why? What good is that now? It should never get personal.

If, however, you started a thread that discussed the reasons for people stopping or not starting breastfeeding and discussed ways around the obstacles then that would be acceptable

YY to that, providing nobody was criticised if they decided it was time to FF. But absolutely, somewhere you can go when struggling with BF where you can get practical advice to help get round many of the problems women experience would be welcome. Even if just somewhere to go at 2am when you feel like screaming!

Shagmundfreud Mon 25-Feb-13 22:26:44

comments like "being told we're defective as parents" are just fucking childish and unfair, because nobody has said this. And you weaken your argument by saying they have. It's a straw man argument which is used to smear and discredit breastfeeding advocacy and it stinks.

Shagmundfreud Tue 26-Feb-13 14:07:56

Sigh - thedetective my post back there was a strangled yelp of frustration at the inevitable comments on this thread along the lines of 'how very dare you say I'm a bad mother for formula feeding' that are ALWAYS wheeled out as some sort of lame challenge to attempts to defend the view that breastfeeding is important to babies.

It always happens. Always.

So, so boring and pointless.

Shagmundfreud Tue 26-Feb-13 08:01:45

Really - this ridiculous focus on 'judging' and women's feelings. sad Jeeze. Breastfeeding advocates are focused on the issue of why breastfeeding is important to babies, and how as many babies as possible can access the benefits of breast milk. In other words - it's not all about YOU.

"I really really hope that you are not some kind of "peer supporter" or "lactation consultant". The thought of you being let anywhere near a vunerable new mother makes my blood run cold, it really does."

Don't worry. I'm not. But I can put my hand on my heart and say that in real life I have NEVER commented at all on anyone's choice to ff or to bf their baby. Because in real life nobody has asked me directly what I think about how they should feed their baby or what I think about it. Therefore I don't offer an opinion.

Because guess what? What's going on here isn't a breastfeeding peer support group or a feeding clinic. This is a debate board on the internet where people air opinions about a wide range of topics, including baby feeding, and therefore it's perfectly reasonable that I can express a view that I'd like to see more babies in the UK being breastfed, without being accused of being A BAD PERSON.

"In an ideal world, all babies would be born and feed the way nature intended. Unfortunately, ideal world this is not".

Yes, it's not ideal. Which is why so many people have advocated for changes to make it so that more babies are breastfed.

"But to the person who had to make the decision at that time, many feel that there was no choice. You can't bloody turn round and tell them different. It is rude, unsupportive, and frankly, nasty."

Sorry - I don't know what you're referring to here. I haven't commented on any one person's personal experience of feeding because I don't know enough about it to comment. If you're referring to the poster who said that she couldn't breastfeed her preterm baby, but then again it doesn't matter if babies are breastfed or not (including preterm babies I assume), you'll note I didn't speculate about her personal experience but pointed out - rightly - that breastfeeding is considered lifesaving for some preterm babies which is why they've set up milk banks for those whose mothers can't or won't breastfeed. Why is this comment offensive? She couldn't breastfeed, not her fault. You'd think she'd be cheered up by the knowledge that many tiny and sick babies whose mothers can't or won't breastfeed now have access to breast milk - something that could make a huge difference to their health. Why would anyone object to this being said?

Just popped back and have seen this thread has turned into an argument!! Have bought a load of those cartons today OP as they are easier despite being expensive. I FF both my babies and will do so again if we are lucky enough to have DC3. I can't breastfeed as I really really do produce hardly any milk and end up with bleeding nipples, a dehydrated unhappy baby and loads of stress.

Some women find it easy to breastfeed which is great. Just like some women have wonderful easy births like I did with DD2 (4 hour labour, two puffs of G&A and really fast recovery). However I would never say because I had a really easy labour that every woman should have a natural birth. We are all different. Why can't Mums stop arguing and start supporting each other - we are all trying to do the best by our children.

Hear, hear inadreamworld.

Where's the love gone?