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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that having high expectations for childbirth and breast feeding contributes to PND?

104 replies

Alizzle · 21/02/2013 21:37

just wondering as my DH seems to think so and I'm beginning to think he's right.

OP posts:
gatheringlilac · 21/02/2013 22:10

Oh, Alizzie. I didn't realise this was personal. Sad

I had a terrible time with child no. 1 until my dh took some time off work and was around a bit.

Do see the GP but a. sleep/rest/support is amazingly helpful b. it will almost certainly pass and in ten years time it will seem like a thing that was awful and huge for you but probably quite small for others.

Do you have a good Health Visitor? I had a lovely HV and she really helped me.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 21/02/2013 22:12

I didn't have any milk (not that I knew this), so despite the expressing, taking fenugreek etc my supply never increased.

However it was the lack of support in hospital. No-one showed me how to bf. when the midwife came round in the morning to ask why my baby was in bed with me (because he kept crying!), he hadn't fed in 12 hours. They were too busy to help me. It was so crushingly disappointing.

I did go to a great bf clinic run by midwives though.

My GP said to me that convincing women to bf isn't the problem, it's supporting them so they can and continue to do so. The bf rates fall dramatically in this country. We are hopeless at supporting mothers to bf.

blossombath · 21/02/2013 22:12

stargirl that sounds hideous, hope you get good support in March.

alizzle hope you get some good help, too. How old is your baby? (sorry if you've already mentioned) I found the bond with my DS took some time to grow - definitely not an immediate thing. In the early weeks I just felt like he was a very cute, lovely baby that I was looking after and I didn't necessarily have more bond to him than any of other lovely babies I have cared for in my family/friends. But then I began to fall in love, I guess, as his personality developed and I got to know him.

Might help you to draft out what you're gonna say to GP so you don't end up downplaying it or backing out when you get there. Best of luck.

Wolfiefan · 21/02/2013 22:12

How old is he? Birth takes time to recover from. I love my kids but it is exhausting and I can totally relate to being up and down (never diagnosed with PND)

Shagmundfreud · 21/02/2013 22:13

MrsDeVere - I've also not ever felt pressure from other women.

Remember - would it not be fair to say, that although a c-s should be celebrated for safely delivering a baby who may otherwise not have made it through birth, it's still understandable that a mother may grieve for the disruption of a normal biological process, just like you may feel sad about having to have had IVF, even though you feel like the luckiest person in the world for having conceived a baby by it?

It's not logical to regret the process which has given you your child, but human beings aren't logical are we?

GirlOutNumbered · 21/02/2013 22:15

I had an emergency section and was just happy that both the baby and I made it through... I certainly have never felt that I let myself down, but then I never wrote a birth plan, as it just seemed ridiculous.

However, when I ws struggling to gt baby latched on I was really really sad, I think I may have slipped into depression if I hadn't have got better at it.

Original poster
Alizzle · 21/02/2013 22:16

my hv was quite good at the start but I haven't seen her for a while.
my boy is 6 months old now and I know I should stop reading these things but I thought that even if your bond wasn't instant it would have happened by now. I feel such at a loss sometimes and feel guilty for feeling like a work day is a better day in terms of my sanity.

OP posts:
CabbageLeaves · 21/02/2013 22:20

YANBU. High expectations due to parent craft classes extolling a relaxed natural delivery (all under my control by being relaxed and mobile... Righto). Breast feeding was also possible for all and only the under achievers, lack of committed, stupid, uncaring mothers don't breast feed because EVERYONE can... righto...

I became a failure in a very short space of time doing the one thing in life that I'd wish to be great at.

Wolfiefan · 21/02/2013 22:20

Oh Alizzle! I go to work for a rest! (And I work with teens!) Are you getting much sleep? Are you getting out much? (I always felt worst when I was stuck in.)
Have you not bonded or are you just so tired you are struggling through each day?

Owllady · 21/02/2013 22:21

I am not sure I agree or disagree
I think i has ptsd after my eldest's birth (which was horrific tbh) and no-one offered any support at all and she wouldn't feed or anything and was eventually diagnosed with quite a severe developmental disability
and then with the other two, one I was fine and then my sister died, so I was depressed anyway and the third, I was tired and exhausted so developed it again
how lovely it is to be a woman Hmm

NotSoNervous · 21/02/2013 22:21

YANBU

There is a lot of pressure on women to do things a certain way and I think that's an added factor

stargirl1701 · 21/02/2013 22:22

Thank you Blossom & Wolfie. 'Tis not all bad. I relactated 8 weeks after stopping and DD will latch on in the mornings with us both lying down. I have some good bf memories now. And, I have the LLL to thank. If we have another DC, I will bf again. I can see how a bad experience with DC1 would mean a mum wouldn't contemplate bf again.

Cherriesarelovely · 21/02/2013 22:22

yanbu and I think the trouble is that noone wants to make you feel bad so they perhaps don't share with you the potentially horrible bits. Or maybe it's just that you don't want to listen when you are pregnant. I felt a total failure.

Owllady · 21/02/2013 22:23

oh and I had an emergency section after a failed insrtumental delivery , bottle fed eventually
planned section, breast/bottle fed
another planned section and breastfed successfully )hmm)

I don't think it made any difference

blossombath · 21/02/2013 22:23

alizzle don't feel guilty about the work thing; going back to work has really helped my state of mind and I (now, mostly) find being with DS a joy while I often find work stressful and demoralising. But just breaking up the relentlessness of caring for him really helps me.

However, I don't have experience of PND personally and don't want to offer advice which might be insensitive or inappropriate - just wanted to repeat that I hope you can get the support you need from GP/DH/wherever, and you feel better/more positive soon.

Cherriesarelovely · 21/02/2013 22:24

Oh and nct classes? Lovely people but the birth preparation bore no relation to the actual event. It was presented as though you will have all these choices but in reality you often don't.

Original poster
Alizzle · 21/02/2013 22:29

CabbageLeaves I feel that way too. I always thought I would be a great mum and be good at looking after my baby but I'm just cuddling through it.

I probably am getting enough sleep. At the beginning my DH would let me lie in and still does now on my days off. As for getting out, less so. I get out for work but I dread taking my Ds out by myself. I'm separated from my family as I moved from the midlands to cornwall in 2010 and haven't really managed to build up a social network. we travel back at least once a month to see my family but I would have loved to have spent my pregnancy and maternity leave closer to them.

Reading this all back I do see reasons why I have/may have pnd but at the time it just all seems my own fault.

OP posts:
gatheringlilac · 21/02/2013 22:30

I wonder if you couldn't benefit from talking to someone. I hope GPs in your area do have the possibility to find you someone.

Reading your posts I wonder if you aren't punishing yourself, setting yourself up to fail because you feel so bad about yourself.

I have a (maybe dumb) idea that, actually, a lot of that supposed bond between parent and child (or do I really mean mother and child) is actually about us (the parent) opening ourselves/permitting ourselves to receive the love the child is actually set up to give. It seems absurd to say that about a baby, because they don't do very much, apart from generate work Grin, and they have no mental complexity of the level that could meaningfully produce anything like "giving love" ... but I swear they do.

That's just a weird idea. Ignore it all at will.

But really, I do think that someone needs to give you some love and compassion, so that you can start giving that to yourself.

My bf is majorly into the idea that PND is chemical - beginning, middle, end - and should always be treated with medicine. But I don't know that I;m so sure about it all being like that. Partly because I was so close to PND and I know that rest, time, and a bit of learning to like myself a bit (partly because of that Health Visitor I had) did me a world of good.

That;s v. me, me, me. but I do think you sound so down on yourself, and that alone makes me think you could do with a dose of Alissle-is-great-propaganda-bombing.

KenDoddsDadsDog · 21/02/2013 22:31

Shagmund I have thought about it a lot since I gave up BF earlier than I would have liked. I think for me again it was the refusal or inability to not try to bounce back into my lifestyle . I should have holed up with DD for two weeks in bed and established BF properly. Instead I cooked for visitors , went out and about and knackered myself.
I know my friends in Spain have family come over to do everything for them and its widely expected that the new mother jut bonds with the baby (and is helped by the other female family members)

Original poster
Alizzle · 21/02/2013 22:31

*muddling not cuddling Blush

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 21/02/2013 22:34

Are there any local mums/groups you could meet up with? Anywhere you can just get out the house for a bit?
It's not your fault. I defy anyone to not sometimes feel like they are muddling through. (I like the idea of "cuddling through" though!)

Angelico · 21/02/2013 22:34

I think the whole 'perfect birth' scenario is a very Mumsnet thing. I've never met anyone in RL who has expressed disappointment at their baby's birth although know a couple of people who had traumatic births. Both were just relieved that their babies were safe. One ended up with PND but it was about 6 months later and tbh she had loads of other stresses in her life - so hard to say if PND or just straightforward depression caused by being worn down by stress.

Pretty sure there was an article not so long ago about HV's calling for NHS to stop plugging BFing so much as they were seeing more women getting PND because they felt like failures if it didn't work out. Not good for anyone - mum or baby.

I had an ELCS and never felt even a smidge of disappointment about my birth method (although it did hurt more than I expected afterwards!). Still EBFing DD but had an awful 4 week period of recurrent blocked ducts in her 2nd month. They resolved thankfully, partly due to good advice on here and kellymom website about how to tackle them, but if they hadn't I probably would have jacked in BFing. I wouldn't have felt guilty about it - during that period every bit of stress in my life was related to BFing. As it is I'm glad I was able to keep going because once I was past that stage I discovered the sheer joyful convenience of BFing!

SarahJinx · 21/02/2013 22:37

Oh Alizzle, crap 36 hour labour, anxious bf'er and slow to bond here too!

22 months in, looking back I know I had pnd, my bond took ages to grow but it has. Please please don't beat yourself up, I promise it will come. When people used to ask was I enjoying him, I would think, errrr no......and hate myself for not feeling it. That combination of exhaustion and anxiety along with feeling crap about it all is a killer. and everything seemed so difficult. I went back to work he was 11 months old, I'd decided that if I began to feel more detached instead of better I'd have to go talk to someone, as things settled, as he started to sleep, as it all got easier, I started to relax and wonder at how amazing he is, that's grown and grown and again, as its easier, its easier to play with him and enjoy him and now I burst with it, and I also thought it might never come.

It was a horrible way to exist though, go talk to someone and be nice to yourself.

gatheringlilac · 21/02/2013 22:37

To be clear

I didn't mean anything in that post to imply this is all your fault. Quite the opposite.

I just wanted to say that you really sound as though you could do with someone to talk to. Who will tell you that you probably already are a good mother; that the bar for being a good mother is probably less high than you think; and that there is loads of stuff that you don't have to do, and don't have to beat yourself up about for not doing.

stargirl1701 · 21/02/2013 22:38

All I do is muddle through - hmm, maybe sometimes cuddle through!