to wonder WTF would it take for people stop eating "meat"

[ElenorRigby]

Just that really!

I think the biggest scandal will be when Findus start making their lasagnes with beef and people start gaining weight due to all the marbled fat beef contains.

You rarely see a fat pony, do you?

I often salivate uncontrollably at the vacuum packed horse meat in my local supermarket. It looks lean and dark and wholesome......

Surely the biggest scandal here is not horse meat itself more the way westerners consume anything processed, genetically modified and injected (and that includes Linda McCartney products which contain more saturates than meat equivalents) without question, like remorseless eating machines.

Isn't the better route to buy good quality products from a reputable source, cook it well and eat a little less of it, whatever that may be?

Soy beans in their natural form? It's not tofu! They're edible (when cooked). Like most beans.

You're right of course. I'm referring to the highly processed stuff used in a lot of modern foods.

The meat industry is unnecessary for our survival and involves abuse. Even 'ethical' meat is questionable - shorten a creature's life because we can and want to, and because humans profit? I would like to tackle the 'demand' side of the industry.
Go vegan! ;)

Thanks for the link. Any acts of animal cruelty are horrifying, so it's good they're going to put CCTV up. I think that relates to my thread up post about rejecting meat not solving much, but demanding better laws to ensure better treatment. Unlawfully obtained CCTV is a crime too however, although not one equal to the mistreatment of animals.

When they start putting people in pies op

i dont pie ready made things so not worried really vook evey thing from scratch this is not about people needed to go opened toed sandled veggie its about peopel buying chicken cooking it then putting ito a pie themleves

We can campaign for better treatment in conjunction with cutting down our consumption of all animal products. The fewer that are bred, the better they'll be treated.

Isn't it odd how the most aggressive and antagonistic comments have been posted by those who consider themselves to hold the moral highround?

I agree that the animals should be better treated.

I will not become vegetarian or vegan. Ever.

As a former extremely carnivorous omnivore - that's what I said.

Army can I ask what changed your mind? Presumably you didn't just wake up one day and go "Meat's crap I'm not eating that again!" but you must have been aware for some time about the production?

I wasn't being flippant there, genuine question.

If 'you' enjoy kicking cats, and 'I' don't, I would not consider myself to hold the moral highground.

I would hold the moral highground.

Strop:

Loads of things. I was quite a defensive meat-eater for a bit before going vegan (lots of 'umm, rare steak, bring the cow' type comments) because I think I was processing information that I'd gathered over time.

Also, I was thinking about hierarchical structures in general (capitalism, white supremacy etc) and how powerful groups dominate because they can, and don't look to benefit anyone but themselves. Some will always abuse to keep the group dominant.

I thought about only eating 'happy' meat but I didn't always make sure (if eating out for example - my bad), and in fact I often couldn't really be sure despite how the meat was marketed.

And I don't need to eat animal products. No one in the West does. So I thought it would be easier for me to eschew them altogether.

A bit when I gave up looking for 'feminist' porn; still can't be certain of the ethics of it, don't need porn anyway.

You can probably make a sensible case for eating meat humanely if the industry were overhauled, but it wouldn't change the fact that meat is destroying the environment. Whomever said you can't say boo about this unless you travel solely on foot - why? Everyone has a carbon footprint, you try to reduce where you can. Meat is a big source. People have changed the way they travel quite a lot - meat has barely undergone any public scrutiny WRT environment.

Actually, our digestive systems, teeth etc have more in common with known Herbivores than either Omnivores or Carnivores!

By the way, I wouldn't even eat 100% guaranteed 'happy meat' now. Still don't need it, it would still have been bred just so I could eat it.

I think Paul McCartney answers this question fairly aptly: "If Slaughter houses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian"

I have recently stopped eating meat, it took far too long.. I ignored my conscience (or tried to pacify it by buying free range) but I always said, if you are prepared to kill it, you should be prepared to eat it, or at the very least see it being killed! People are far too protected from the reality of consuming flesh, being allowed to kid themselves into believing it is perfectly natural and simply a 'product' manufactured without pain, misery and suffering. Its Not!

This is the reality.....

Thanks for that Army, eating out does give me something to think about. I normally get meat from my butcher who makes his own minced meat from steak that he's cut from the cow himself, having had it delivered from a farmer he knows. And there is a huge difference between that and the disgusting pink slop that passes for meat in the supermarket (where I can't bring myself to buy from).

But I don't agree that less people eating meat = better treatment. I would have thought that less people eating meat = less profit so no need to worry about treatment as it's too costly? I do think the only way is to tighten animal welfare laws. Given that we will never all be 100pc vegan or vegetarian we need better legislation in place. I'd rather eat no meat than poorly treated meat, hence using my wonderful butcher. But I'd never thought about the eating out issue. I shall now.

And Saski that was me saying about travelling on foot, that was me being sarcastic in response to another post.

Ooops! I meant, if you are prepared to eat it you should be prepared to kill it. Obviously! Sorry.

I thought about this thread while shopping just now. I used to be rich & buy all my meat from Doves, which happened to be down the road and has a huge reputation built on happy, healthy meat. Now I'm terribly poor, I shop at Aldi - which boasts higher standards than most British supermarkets, but I'm there because it's cheaper.

After giving the matter some consideration I went ahead and bought a kilo of frozen chicken pieces for £1.99. I'm under no illusion those birds skipped merrily around a grain-strewn barnyard throughout their truncated lives.

I am a horrible person. In my defence, my health requires a high protein diet. But I'm still horrible! I'd eat my cat if she was the only meat available.

Liza that video will have to wait til later, I have very young children in the room and I don't think scaring them is what I want to do right now! My oldest (5) knows where meat comes from and she will be made aware of more at an age appropriate time. If she chooses to become vegetarian I will of course support that. I don't believe in hiding where meat comes from, but I don't want to give her nightmares!

hi Army, good, you can do the facts thing I struggle with.

Strop - I don't mind you calling me stupid. I don't agree with you, but it doesn't affect me one way or the other.

Tough - I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted...

Sunflowers, overall the animal eaters on this thread have been a lot more "aggressive and antagonistic" than the veggies

ICBINEG - this stuff fascinates me too.

Yes of course the grain is fed to the animals...duh

Wish I had a memory

Liza80 rubbish wonder how many who work in aboutors or farms are veggie not many i would guess