to wonder WTF would it take for people stop eating "meat"

[ElenorRigby]

Just that really!

ICBINEG" then isn't some life better than none?"

I don't understand this. If something is never born then it won't be bothered about having never been born. How is that a consideration for anything?
I can understand once something is born giving it some consideration.
Or are you saying that people would miss its presence if it wasn't born?

Cross posts with informed people. And that should say between 75 and 90%.

I think vegetarians and vegans are wrong. If they stopped being so silly about eating tasty things, then there would be no need for nasty meat substitutes wasting precious resources on packaging. Everyone should go to their local butchers and pay a fair price for good quality meat that has been well treated , and boycott cheap nasty supermarket crap. We should all demand veal and thereby making it a viable alternative to simply shooting and wasting male milk calves. The dairy industry would improve and we can all have tasty bacon for breakfast. Vegans are the selfish ones. If more people demanded better quality of life for animals that would improve things, not just refusing to buy it which drives people to produce more cheaply so they make more profit.

And as for the environmentally sound argument, I hope you never ever use transport other than foot.

Ok that's a bit more aggressive that what I really feel, which is that everyone is entitled to their opinions but calling meat eaters selfish and stupid is a bit OTT. We are not stupid, we KNOW how meat is processed. Funny how we must listen to veggies and respect their opinions when all meat eaters are evil and thick. That's not respecting my opinion is it? And no, if you don't like it that's just fine but tough. Your opinion is no better than mine just because you think it is. We have different values that's all.

I bet the vegetarians/vegans on this thread will not like being called stupid for their opinions...

Hully who can say? The cow? Us?

you could make that same argument about the feelings of plants

I don't eat meat.

I did read somewhere once that if we didn't farm cows and sheep then they would have become extinct long ago.

Not sure what that adds to any or the arguments on here, but interesting thought (I thought at the time of reading.)

I don't eat anything sold as 'meat'. I eat animals from my butcher that have been allowed to Roam about and be treated nicely. It makes them more tasty!

Interesting first post from veganvenelope

WTF would it take for people to stop eating 'meat'?

1. It becomes life threateningly risky to eat said 'meat'

1. Cross contamination with human flesh triggers necessary revulsion and turns people off 'meat' (see also 1.)

1. A creature comes along, bumping humans off their elevated position in the food chain. Creature eats humans and a revelation takes place that eating other animals isn't so great after all

If a superior alien species landed here and decided to 'farm' us in similar ways, I doubt we'd appreciate it much.

I eat meat and I have a scarf made of real rabbit fur

I think most vegie fanciers are totally decent people.

Then you get the zealot types. The ones who start a crusade on their anti meat agenda. They preach about meat being murder and only buy "vegetarian" shoes, they insist on ruining your bacon butty lunch break by asking how you are enjoying your "murder" sandwich. Can I taste the fear of the poor pig in the meat I'm chewing etc.

I answer with a belch and tell them, its fucking amazing, here try some /shoves butty at vege-freak.

Like I said earlier, for some people their vegie opinions is extremely close to nazi'ism. Hitler was an angry man cause he never got to enjoy a nice salisbury steak....

gotta go out ICBINEG, will be back to pursue further

cool hully

As vegevelope said cows want to live...they want to reproduce. If we didn't farm them then neither of those things would be happening.

Is it better to have never lived at all or to live a truncated life?

Are cows aware that they are living under the threat of death? If not then the comparison to human farming is irrelevant. Human's would suffer during life simply from the knowledge that they are on the menu. I haven't seen any suggestion that cows have any concept of past or future or do anything other than live blissfully in the present.

If it is about animal suffering then we move to a system where animals don't suffer, not a system in which animals do not die (clearly impossible anyway as everything dies).

I have tried the vegan thing (inlaws are vegan) and I can't sustain it. Cutting out meat and not dairy is (IMHO) bonkers because it is the dairy and not the meat that is causing the suffering.

"Is it better to have never lived at all or to live a truncated life?"

If you've never lived at all, it wouldn't be better or worse. It wouldn't be anything.
But once you are alive, it would probably be better to live a pleasant life that's not truncated.

I've actually watched the video Veganvenelope posted. It's outdated, made by Peta and stars Sir Paul McCartney. It's so badly skewed it's not true and the only reason not to eat meat because of it, is because Macca has put you off your lunch. As far as I can tell, the video is pure propaganda, showcasing only the worst cases of animal abuse. Slaughterhouses and farming have moved on since then, and if anyone wants to link something a bit more subjective and modern, I'll gladly be open to watching it.

Meat is better for you than soya, which contains a whole raft of nasty chemicals: The Dark Side of Soy(a)

Soya is also just about the most processed food there is - the processes used to turn it into an edible foodstuff (apart form its natural form in tofu) is ridiculously complex and requires a lot of energy. Unfortunately it's used in so many food products these days it's virtually inescapable.

Bleh, Soya gives me horrible migraines. I have a slight dairy intolerance so I keep away from cows milk. Rice milk is the way to go!

Soy beans in their natural form? It's not tofu! They're edible (when cooked). Like most beans.

If we weren't meant to eat meat, why does it taste do damned good and vegetables invariably just taste bleh?

To me the issue is not about the meat, it is about processing it - and everything else that is processed and manufactured in our current food industry.
Processing is just an opportunity for the item to be altered to make it more palatable, last longer etc - and the main driver is of course cost. If a cheaper ingredient can be added, or some random product used to eke out the more expensive items then so much the better.
This is not limited to meat, it applies to vegetarian and vegan processed foods as well. Would I would like to be confident that all of the additives and fillers are necessary, safe and as described? Of course..
But I am not at all sure that food manufacturers have their eyes on anything apart from the bottom line.

Is this more recent Strop? www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/abattoirs-supermarkets-cctv-cruelty-welfare

Didn't watch the one upthread.