to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

Cross posted. I would say that you are right - lots of people dislike AK and UP because it is theoretical and a lot of people reading it completely misunderstand it.

the more I'm getting the feeling that the UP parents aren't really entirely [sure] of what they're doing, and are contradicting themselves slightly, and just using different terms for what are, essentially, the same actions of other parents.

This is something that confuses/amuses me, too. Kohn (yes I have read the book in detail) is emphatic that it's an all-or-nothing approach, whereas a lot of UPers online admit that they slip into a bit of natural consequences/rewards when it suits them. Then they say it's okay not to be 100% UP, they are just exploring the ideas, don't have to be true UPers to talk about UP ideas. BUT the point of UP is that it is very absolutist. There is no UP-lite. UP is dramatically different because it is zero tolerance for most conventional tactics. You can't cherrypick and call yourself a UPer. I think that within UP/Kohn he says that you can and indeed should set firm boundaries BUT only about matters of utmost urgency, like if your toddlers wants to run in front of cars on a busy road. ?All other situations are gray areas, which is where UP parents seem to tie themselves up in knots trying to do the right thing. No other parenting movement seems to leave followers with so little practical guidance.

Other than that zero tolerance, Kohn otherwise is suggesting nothing dramatically different from PET or Faber & Mazlish, etc.

I'm amazed by those of you who know so many UPers or highly-probably UPers. I know none. I must live in such a boring bubble. I know a lot of HErs and none of them unschool, either. I've only ever met one card-carrying GFer, too.

Children need to learn how to behave and its our job to teach them. If UP works for you, great. If on the otherhand, your child is out of control and regularly upsetting those around them, then other techniques should be used. Same goes for out of control children of non UP parents.
Like exoticfruits says, one size does not fit all. To blindly follow a technique because AK says so is deluded, unfair on the child and unfair on others who encouner that child.

Surely 'UP lite' is just called 'parenting' ?!

UP lite sounds like a diet drink

Carrying your DCs bags/lunchbox/PE bag, in order to allow them to run ahead/ride on a scooter etc, is not acting like a "hapless Sherpa"

It allowing your dc a bit of time to let off steam, unhindered by a collection of bags. I really do not see a problem and wish people on MN would stop referring to it as some kind of indicator of an inadequate parent.

I think it's parental choice to carry bags, dunno why thread sidetracked. Bit like me letting DC still use buggy on occasion age 3-6yo (if you're not pushing, what's it to do with you?). I haven't noticed any overly burdened parents. I insist DC carry most their own bags from about age 7.5. I'll help out a bit on days when they have extras & I have hands free.

I used to carry ds's bags without even thinking, like a bloody idiot.

I can happily report however that he's turning out just fine, and manages to carry the absurd quantities of stuff he needs to cart around secondary with no trouble.

It's not a great indicator of horror childness, basically.

Laqueen "The version of UP parenting I'm hearing here, sounds quite muddled and grey to me (in just exactly the same way as most parents muddle through) - except of course, most parents didn't smugly pay £10.99 to have their muddling through given fancy-dancy sounding terminology "

Your response to people who have read and like and try to practice UP sounds so hostile and self-congratulatory. Well done you for not needing help with your parenting. I do. I am not smug about that and I find it just really offensive that you think that because I look for help I am smug.

I find arrogant the attitude that you just can decide for yourself and you'll be great at it, and you always just know what is best for your child because you are an adult. You may know more stuff but that's hardly a reason to dismiss out of hand the child's perspective - you don't tell people who don't have your info or experience to shut up and do what you say, you educate them, and that for me is key to UP. And your knowledge of stuff is partial, partisan and focused on your own needs and goals, which is strangely enough the reason that people seem to find children unreasonable.

Also, what is it about people who are avowedly not UP telling people who are what the criteria are? And 'the version of UP that is here' is not a single version and I think to describe UP as a 'movement' then get all arsey cos people aren't 'following it correctly' when you don't even approve of it in the first place. And I'd like to restate the fact that I find the "common sense" stuff about "love and firm boundaries" as nebulous as anything AK or his readers do - what does that LOOK like? And how do you KNOW that's what it feels like to your child?

There's 41,000 different sects of the Christian church. That's what happens when a book or philosophy is taken as the ultimate truth or turned into a movement - nit picking, hair splitting, black and white thinking. People invest their identity in proving that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Every single person has their own version of reality. Everything is a shade of grey, everyone cherry picks, your 'common sense' is not my 'common sense'.

'Unconditional Parenting' is just a book. Maybe there are hordes of parents holding it up a a manifesto to bolster their self satisfaction while their kids run wild. Personally I haven't come across that at all.

There's not a lot in the way of techniques in the book. So what? I'm not a 'follower' - I can reflect on the what is written and learn from that, apply it as I see fit.
Does that mean that I end up just doing this 'common sense' parenting thing while thinking I am really special and different and enlightened?

Course not. I am ancient,I have been humbled and shat on by life enough times to know that pride comes before a fall. I am not going to get competitive or sneery about other parents.

Reading UP had a huge effect on me and greatly influences what goes by the name of parenting around here. To consider the child's perspective to that extent with regard to punishment and reward was completely new to me.
And I'm grateful for that.

LeQueen - you have been very hostile. You have told some of the parents on this thread who have patiently tried to explain what UP means to them and how they try to put it into practice that they are shit parents and their children will be little shits who no- one will like. You are smugger than smug and have been offensive.

I Find the concept interesting but find myself getting frustrated and shaking my head at some of the UP stuff I have read (not necessarily this thread). I couldn't do it though I think it might be good if I could incorporate some of it. I don't understand what AK is trying to achieve. What is the point of writing his book which is quite out there when he leaves the reader to muddle through and with no practical help or direction. He seems to be letting his followers down. Makes me doubt if he actually knows what he is talking about but just rambling.

Also why go on about cherry picking the parts that work for them. Doesn't that make sense rather than just blindly following through when it's not working or feels right. It's like folk who like to bash Catholics when they don't follow every rule to the letter but actually follow their own conscience. Saying that I have found some UP parents hard to take seriously and have wanted to slap some with a wet fish.

Laqueen is sensible.

I automatically find any parent who 'follows' a parenting style as just a bit mad really.

I just can't see why you need to follow someone else's ideas in a slavish tribal way.

Of course we all need a big if help and support at certain times but it reminds me if the hapless parents on 'outnumbered'

As they read and agonise the kids rule the roost, that's shy it's so funny.

Sometimes I agree with her, she was very rude earlier on this thread. Did wonder at the time if she was on the sauce last night.

I don't find LeQueen hostile, I find her direct, which I like. Lots of DCs like direct -and they are the ones not suited to UP - they realise it is subtle manipulation to make it seem as if it is their own choice when the parent's agenda is to get them to agree with their 'take' on it. Some children can be equally manipulative and get everything in their favour. They are all different. Personally I would love to see AK's children- sensibly he has never exposed them to public view.
I don't mind taking a DC's belongings if they want a run around. It is just that the ones I see thrust them at her- as if it is her job- and don't even say thank you, never mind asking her first!

DCs will come across people being direct - I can't see the point in sheltering them- or taking the suggestion that I was given earlier, change the orthodontist because he had the temerity to tell my 15yr old the truth about what would happen if he didn't clean his teeth under the brace!

I have a slight case of the guilts here, remembering putting "spirited" DS1 aged about 2 in something approaching a headlock to brush his teeth.
I am consoling myself with the fact that he has immaculate, filing free teeth now and seems to have suffered no lasting psychological ill effects.
Genuinely impressed with the people who can spend weeks patiently talking round a reluctant tooth brusher. For me, life is a bit too short for that level of indulgence.