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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

852 replies

GirlOutNumbered · 11/02/2013 20:54

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

OP posts:
RememberTheGoodTimes · 15/02/2013 20:03

But why shouldn't they NOT want to brush their teeth? Why would they chose to against the grain?
I have found my 2 dcs have always wanted to make us parents happy foremost. Sometimes what they want to do at that point and what we would like them to do doesn't quite coincide but for long term stuff like this, I have never seen an issue.

The coat? At 4yo I would have carry the coat. Now (7 and 9yo), they are asked to carry their coat (usually in a small rucksack). But tbh, dc1 had learnt by that time that a coat is a good idea anyway.

exoticfruits · 15/02/2013 20:06

I think that you are just extremely lucky with your DCs RememberTheGoodTimes-UP works fine with 'people pleasers' -it doesn't work with those who don't want to make their parents happy-and is unworkable if you have one of each!

RememberTheGoodTimes · 15/02/2013 20:07

but you see exotics when my dentist tried to use that sort of technique with me (ie using fear = your mum will do it for you, to convince me to do something), I left their clinic and went to see someone else..... And I stayed with the nice dentist that calmly explained why such and such procedure was necessary and why x and y coudn't be done.

I wouldn't need to 'force' my dcs to brush their teeth because by now (7 and (yo) they already know why they do it and only need very little reminding. So they wouldn't need to be told as a 15yo....

BegoniaBampot · 15/02/2013 20:07

Sorry you lost me with the teeth brushing. Would you make sure your young child's teeth were brushed or not? Would you let them decide for themselves?

RememberTheGoodTimes · 15/02/2013 20:09

exotic my dcs aren't people pleaser.
dc2 has autism (so nowhere near a people pleaser) and dc1 could be more stubborn than me (and i can be very stubborn).

the fact that they seem to be so amenable to my request is the result of UP, not from their temperaments.

BegoniaBampot · 15/02/2013 20:10

Remember - some children will resist. What if yours had refused - what would you have done?

BegoniaBampot · 15/02/2013 20:11

How do you know it's the result of UP?

Softlysoftly · 15/02/2013 20:16

Sorry "remember" but the statement that they first and foremost want to make their parents happy sits really badly with me and I'm not even UP.

I want my children to make the right choices and to be happy. I do not want them living a life based on making me happy.

For someone who professes uc that's a very very odd statement to make.

Sparklyboots · 15/02/2013 20:38

I'm in the 'parented badly/ instincts fucked' camp so have read lots of parenting books. In any case I think you should always check your thinking about important stuff which is difficult for you/ the other party concerned eg. in a parent/ child struggle. Also think 'common sense' is often another label for 'commonly accepted so I won't think it through'. My understanding of UP, or what made the most impression on my parenting fro reading it is (1) the assumption that the child means well at all times and when they're pushing buttons/ boundaries they are asking for a need to be met not setting out to 'challenge your authority' (a major theme in my background); (2) that I shouldn't abuse the child's utter dependence and/ or naivety to manipulate their behaviour (I wouldn't threaten to leave a child or pretend I'm going w/o them for eg); (3) that I should be careful when sanctioning the child, bc while I can see clearly that to disapprove of their behaviour is not to disapprove of them (or to approve of their behaviour is not the basis of my approval of them as a person) they might not be able to see the nuance of this and therefore might interpret my love and acceptance of them as 'conditional'. Posters ready to dismiss out of hand this last concern must never have had to struggle with self-esteem issues such as perfectionism, people pleasing at cost of personal well being, eating disorders, workaholism, anxiety about appearing good/ bright/ whatever resulting in avoidance or overcompensatory behaviours etc. Lucky them. But I've met enough people whose self-esteem is problematically dependant on the approval of others to think that I want to be really mindful of that with my own DC. None of this really relates in my mind to a lack of boundaries or the shit/ineffectual parenting that ppl have assumed was UP.

Agree the book is perspective heavy/ technique light and have supplemented it with other books etc. and also cherry picked (as surely we all do in relation to parenting ideas we adopt). Have read all the Faber/ Malish books (how to talk is their famous one) and am also doing lots of NVC reading. Not going to apologise for thinking it's (a) interesting (b) worthwhile (c) part of my responsibility to my DC to check out thinking on such things.

And also want to point out that while Kohn might offer few techniques, neither do ppl spouting so-called common sense like 'DC need love and firm boundaries'. What does that look like when you've got an undressed child why's meant to be leaving in 5 mins? And are you sure the child recognises that whatever you are doing is 'love and firm boundaries'? I for one know my own DM' s version of being 'loving' was not in line with how I experienced it.

chandellina · 15/02/2013 20:50

I find the debate interesting but I think a lot of things like anger management and confidence come down to the child's personality and sensitivity and can be difficult to influence significantly.

RememberTheGoodTimes · 15/02/2013 20:50

How do you know it's the result of UP?
Because before finding Up (through MN actually) I have done the same thing than most people, used time out (a disaster) and punishments.
And it didn't work.
dc1 as a toddler was very difficult to manage. he was the sort of toddler who would refuse to get dressed, would have major tantrums etc... that is until I changed my methods and introduced UP. That's why I really think that's UP that made the difference for us (dc2 is a different ball park but interestingly, the advice for children with ASD is along the lines of How to talk, which isn't that different imo).

Softly I know what you mean and you are right. I haven't explained myself well. It's not about wanting my children to please me. I want them to be happy, have their own lives and make their own choices.
It's more about the fact that children want to do well. They are never trying their best to get at us, not do what we ask just for the sake of it. They are doing what they do because they want to be happy (just like us) and having a happy mum/dad is part of what makes them happy.
I am sure I am still not explaining myself well there... Hopefully someone else will be able to be clearer.

RememberTheGoodTimes · 15/02/2013 20:52

Sparklyboots that's an excellent summary of UP!

Cat98 · 15/02/2013 21:02

Good post sparklyboots

chandellina · 15/02/2013 21:03

Ok, with all this parenting expertise in one place, can someone tell me the best way to deal with a 4. 5 year old who wakes from bad dreams in the night and wants someone to stay with him? Keeping in mind mummy must get up for work at 5:45 and child is in reception. I do my best not to get angry, the promise of reward isn't working, yet I despair of sitting at the end of my son's bed for an hour and then he wakes again as I creep out.

Cat98 · 15/02/2013 21:14

Hmm I'm probably not the best to answer - my 4.5 year old sleeps in my bed from about midnight onwards :)

Softlysoftly · 15/02/2013 21:19

Remember that does make more sense!

Softlysoftly · 15/02/2013 21:20

Yes Chan path of least resistance is dc in your bed if you need to be up!

Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 15/02/2013 21:36

Can you fit in his bed? I would sleep in with him. He will outgrow the nightmares and you won't get him in the habit of sleeping in your bed.

OP posts:
mrsjay · 15/02/2013 21:38

I would either take him in with you or sleep in his bed on the floor tbh it will pass or speak to him about his dreams get him a bedside light or a torch

chandellina · 15/02/2013 22:11

He has never tried to come in our bed, only on weekend mornings, though I'm sure that would be desirable to him. He'd also like his baby sister in with him but she sleeps beautifully alone. Think we may need a mattress on the floor. Sigh.

exoticfruits · 15/02/2013 22:14

but you see exotics when my dentist tried to use that sort of technique with me (ie using fear = your mum will do it for you, to convince me to do something), I left their clinic and went to see someone else..... And I stayed with the nice dentist that calmly explained why such and such procedure was necessary and why x and y coudn't be done.

I wouldn't need to 'force' my dcs to brush their teeth because by now (7 and (yo) they already know why they do it and only need very little reminding. So they wouldn't need to be told as a 15yo...

Firstly he managed to get his teeth beautifully straightened by an excellent orthodontist on the NHS. I was not going to go elsewhere to pay because the orthodontist told him the truth!
Secondly he had already told him, with a calm, friendly explanation , why it was necessary with pictures of teeth after the brace was removed where they had not been cleaned.
Thirdly, he had always cleaned his teeth well-cleaning behind a train track brace that never comes out is time consuming and very different.
Fourthly he had to clean them-how we got there didn't matter as long as it worked and he cleaned them.

I want them to be happy, have their own lives and make their own choices.

I think that most people want this, but UP parents have the same agenda as everyone else and the expectation is that you will get the result that you want-it is just the method that is different.

exoticfruits · 15/02/2013 22:31

I have found my 2 dcs have always wanted to make us parents happy foremost

Not all children do! My mother always explained everything and it worked fine with me and brother 1-it didn't work with brother 2 -we all had the same upbringing from birth. It is personality. I know many people who have DC1 and they pat themselves on the back because 'it is all down to their parenting methods' -and then they get DC2 who is entirely different and they realise that it was nothing to do with their parenting-just that DC1 was an amenable child who fitted in.

exoticfruits · 15/02/2013 22:44

It is also a lot to do with confidence -what you think will work does work. If it comes fairly naturally, and you are happy with it, it will work. If you are unsure, it is against your temperament, and you have to keep referring to a book, then it won't because children read as much into your body language as to what you say.
My parenting is very much along the lines of UP-but without labels and reading books-but as the adult I have more experience of life and if necessary I will use it. I find the use of language very powerful and just changing a sentence from a negative to a positive can make a world of difference.

RememberTheGoodTimes · 16/02/2013 07:20

chand dc2 has been like this for years. And woke up several times a night.
We stayed with him until he was asleep, taking turn between me and my DH.

In the mean time, I would check what could be the cause of the nightmares (difficulty at school, diet etc...)

exotic UP has NEVER come naturally to me. And nor has it come naturally to a lot of people who do UP.
I am not british. The norm in my country to discipline a child is smacking. The 'common sense' there tells you that you are not a good parent if you don't smack as you then have no way to discipline a child. So no UP didn't come 'naturally'. It came because I was using methods that clearly did not work for us and doing more of the same just wasn't making sense. So like a lot of people I learnt other ways.

But tbh I have no idea why people make such a fuss about UP and AK. His book is very 'theoretical' and can easily be understood the wrong way (even though he does say that being UP tells nothing about how strict or not you are with your dcs). 'How to talk' is about techniques to deal with children but very little theoretical background. Most people on here would be happy to use 'How to talk'. It's actually the book that is recommended again and again when parents have some problems. 'How to talk' is UP in action. (or rather one way to have UP in action)

exoticfruits · 16/02/2013 07:35

You also have to tailor your methods according to the child, what will work well with one won't necessarily work with another. If you have a stubborn child you try not to get to a situation where they can dig their heels in. This is where I am against books and 'the method'- you have your child from birth, you know their personality and how they will respond in certain situations so it makes sense to use it - the author doesn't know them. There is never 'one size fits all.