to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

Mavis do you use no rewards or punishments whatsoever?

That's the bit that really intrigues me.

For example, how do you get your dc to eat vegetables, brush their teeth, go to bed at a set time and other such issues which are common 'problem areas' for want of a better phrase?

Teeth: when it's been difficult we (dh & I) brushed ours together and hung out in the bathroom, joking around, making the bathroom the most fun place in the house at that time. Child always welcome, his brush out. We hung on with nerves of steel for a looong time - maybe weeks - with only intermittent success. Teeth were getting cleaned but not twice every day and not always once, though usually. Served lots of cheese and v little acidic/sweet foods during this time (child too young to get the explanations, though we did give them). Also used books about teeth cleaning and you tube was great too - different phases, different things worked. I admit it was a lot of effort. For us it was worth it because the alternative - to force or bribe him - was less appealing. After several weeks, maybe a few months (memory being protective as there's a baby on way and I know we'll have this to do again) it was fine. There's been no issue since & from 3 1/2 he started asking about bacteria etc - all the stuff we'd read with him in the teeth-brushing books and appeared to leave him unmoved at the time.

Food I don't make an issue of, just serve and ignore. Not been through the emotions with this though as extreme fussiness hasn't been an issue for us, just the irritating 'no mixed foods'/one day's favourite is next day's poison type stuff. I imagine it's very hard to worry a lot about your child's diet. Oh, I also blend veg etc in sauces.

There's no bad atmosphere or shouting in my house but if ds hits dd he gets a time out, along with an explaination. I found this to be extremely effective. He learnt very quickly thy hitting is not acceptable. My cousin uses UP techniques and years later her dd is still hitting. The technique may be effective for some dc but for themit is not working. I ccan't help feelingif tthere were consequences for her bad behaviour she would learn to control herself.

Bedtimes less of an issue with home schooling. When we used less flexible childcare we did sometimes have to wake ds1 in the mornings. He would nap or sleep earlier the next day then - I know not all kids do.

Our 4yo went through a hitting phase as a toddler and UP was v effective, he's v gentle now.

I really don't doubt that. I'd say it works a treat for a lot of families. But for children with more challenging behaviour, its probably appropriate to explore other techniques.

Mavis, I agree, that was what I was going to say.
No way would I inflict on a child the 'parenting techniques' my sister and I endured.

When DS was born I read everything I could to put together a picture of how things could be better. Don't really consider myself to be a credulous muppet. Maybe I am - have read UP book several times!

I only know of one other person in RL who has read the book and to be honest it is a bit culty for them. There is definitely a major parenting project going on and I've stepped back from the friendship because the atmosphere is so claustrophobic, joyless and contrived. And definitely there's a satisfaction in being 'different' and better than your average mum or dad. So yeah that goes on for sure.

Doesn't have to be that way though. It's possible to read and reflect and make your own mind up. The UP book absolutely changed the way I thought about rewards and punishment and to dig my own grave - I even read his other book 'Punished by Rewards'. It's all helped, I'm grateful for what I've hopefully learned - we have a lot of fun.

I do think I aim for dc to grow into happy, well-adjusted adults rather than focus on well-behaved children as my aim. My sisters and I were v well behaved, our parents were complimented on it, and we all are fucked in mental health terms. So I get where you're coming from, LaQueen. I don't think people grit their teeth at my dc but I'm sure they do at me when I don't 'deal with' issues in a sufficiently punitive way. I haven't lost my social skills since first getting pregnant, and am acutely aware of these dynamics (and do what I can to mitigate them).

I don't use consequences btw, good or bad. So if child doesn't want to wear coat, i carry the coat and offer it in a non-judgmental way when I think they might be cold. I don't let them experience the consequences of refusing to dress appropriately.

I'm sure that once you have more than one child it is very difficult not to rely on the better nature of the more easy going child.
E.g it is a lovely sunny day, the nicest day of half term and the DCs ask to go to the park- you can't because you are waiting in for a delivery, but say you will go in the afternoon. When it gets to afternoon DC2 is keen to keep you to it - but as you get ready DC1 tells you they don't want to go. I think that most parents would work on the amenable child rather than the one that they know will have a strop, especially if they are stressed, under the weather etc.

LaQueen I work, have hobbies, friends and try actively not to live in a child-centred way. Just in case you were wondering. My husband works etc also.

But maybe I'm being disingenuous: I do work fewer hours than I used to pre-dc, and I do choose to spend a lot of time with them, the home edding requires that. I don't think I'm immersed in my kids: I guess
I am prepared to spend a lot of time with/on them at certain points in their lives but I'm sure that's true for you/most parents?

Why should the mother act as a servant, carrying coats,so that they don't have to take the consequences? I watch DCs come out of school and just hand everything to the mother to carry- and she just takes it!

I really wonder how much is actually what the parent does and how much the child would have come to naturally.

"Teeth: when it's been difficult we (dh & I) brushed ours together and hung out in the bathroom, joking around, making the bathroom the most fun place in the house at that time. Child always welcome, his brush out. We hung on with nerves of steel for a looong time - maybe weeks - with only intermittent success."

My DD wasnt keen on brushing her teeth, we lightly tried it - when it was becoming an issue we immedialty backed off and tried again a few weeks later without making an issue of it and she did it fine. Her teeth are fine now years on, always praised by dentist for her teeth etc.

Ie all the inbetween bit you did Mavis - maybe wasnt even neccasry? Hanging out in the bathroom, working really hard at it.

I have friends doing Gina Ford - baby goes down at x and sleeps thru - they swear their varisous techniques and applications are what is making thier baby sleep but I persoanlly think ALL of them in the group bar one ARE all sleeping thru anyway! Because they have come to the age to do it?!

No, well-behaved child not inconsistent with well-adjusted adult, just saying where my primary focus is. And children behaving in kind, sociable, 'well-behaved' ways are a joy, an what I expect -and generally get - from mine.

Blue lips etc not happened to me. always been happy to put it on eventually. Sometimes want to feel cold for a bit - young kids also often don't feel the cold so much. I don't mind carrying coats, I am not a martyr. Bags I draw the line at - they choose whether to carry or not (we don't have school bags).

MDC - I am paranoid about teeth, glad your approach worked for you, I do similar with things I'm less uptight about.

Mavis, how is the child going out without a coat and then offering the coat when they are cold not letting them experience the consequences? I'd do exactly the same as you, possibly adding in an explanation of "That's why I asked you to put your coat on", but they're still feeling the consequences of their position. I am not in the UP camp but I'm interested in the distinction here (I'm also not above pushing the coat thing with DCs when it is properly cold as opposed to borderline).

Sharp sensation of cold which is unpleasant - better than exoeriencing coercion in coat-putting on. Gtg. Will read thread again later