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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

852 replies

GirlOutNumbered · 11/02/2013 20:54

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

OP posts:
MiniTheMinx · 15/02/2013 11:39

There not their*

MiniTheMinx · 15/02/2013 11:41

Oh, sorry, don't mean to sound smug, I am just saying how it is. I am lucky. Maybe things will change when they hit being teenagers, who knows.

Softlysoftly · 15/02/2013 11:45

But financially I did not need to work, I chose to work as I live my job and feel rewarded by a job done well.

I now on maternity leave choose to help friends for the sheer enjoyment of using my mind. Where is my capatilist reward?

Just because you choose to be financially supported by another person and see only money as a motivation to work doesn't mean everyone brought up by non unconditional parenting is the same.

Logically it sounds correct, like 2+2 but no individual is the same and live isn't so Black and White and logical x doesn't always = y. You are looking at things far too simplistically.

BertieBotts · 15/02/2013 11:46

Well, I'm guessing you can't leave a 6 year old home alone (although possibly for 10 minutes if the party is only 5 minutes away? I don't know, I am not up to speed with how responsible 6 year olds are.)

You probably wouldn't be dealing with it at 8.55am for a start, anyway. You'd have explained about the party and how they need to be dressed by X time or straight after breakfast or whatever. Again I don't know what 6 year olds are like but my 4 year old asks to play on the playstation, so I'd say no not now - you can play later but you don't have time now because we have to (whatever). He's always accepted this, sometimes with a bit of whining or "But I'll be quick!"

If you are leaving the 4 year old at the party then perhaps the 6 year old could come along for the ride in PJs? If he's not leaving the car then I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Softlysoftly · 15/02/2013 11:47

What is with my phone and the word live! Love and life ffs.

MiniTheMinx · 15/02/2013 11:59

I'm just thinking that if you always use rewards, you are socialising the child to comply for reward, what would happen if there wasn't a reward. I assume then you supplement the reward for a punishment when they are not motivated? I can't be the only person to wonder if that is the case, you may end up with a situation where in the absence of reward or punishment the child has no motivation at all.

Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 15/02/2013 12:12

I just think a lot of it is down to personality. . . I do wonder how much your parenting style has to do with it,

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 15/02/2013 12:12

Perhaps Mini, but I think that is extreme Victorian-style parenting. I think while the vast majority of parents do use generic punishments and rewards, it would be a very small minority who would use only these.

Fairenuff · 15/02/2013 12:17

They are not playing games of protracted stalling for reward because they know that you are not making bargains using reward or punishment

he used to faff around so that the teacher made him stay in at play time. The teachers were puzzled because when he picked up the pen the work was finished in minutes and was fine. When I spoke to him he told me that he wanted to stay in at playtime and talk to the teachers

But Mini this is stalling for reward. Or would you say he behaves differently in school, therefore the UPing only works as long as he is with his parent and when he is set free into the real world, he tries to manipulate adults like any other child?

Fairenuff · 15/02/2013 12:22

Sock thankyou for your explanation. I would see that as 'regular' parenting. However, no matter how gently, you are still forcing your child into the situation you want them to be in, so it's not really his choice, his consequence as far as I can see.

Or would you say first either you walk to the car or I carry you? But, then, what if he was a fairly large ten year old?

Bertie thankyou too, this is so interesting. I do see an element of reward though, by telling the child you can play on it later. Surely, you shouldn't have to even mention any kind of enticement but I appreciate that it's probably actually impossible to parent without some form of reward. And, of course, it works!

MiniTheMinx · 15/02/2013 12:23

He was only 6 at the time but yes he was clearly trying to manipulate the teachers, the reward was their attention. The teachers decided to tell him that he wouldn't be staying in at break even if he didn't finish the work. I spoke to him at home and basically said it would be a pitty if he let himself down by not finishing the work. I think he realised that he would be letting himself down and without the reward/punishment being on offer decided to get on with his work. But yes, he was manipulating but maybe that was because the reward/punishment was there.

Fairenuff · 15/02/2013 12:28

The sorts of punishments I do are usually choices heavily weighted in my favour.

A few years ago, my ds, now 13, got me confused with someone who was born yesterday and told me that he couldn't come off his wii game because he couldn't save it.

I told him that he either turned it off himself or I would switch it off at the socket. Funnily enough, he found he could save his game after all.

Is that UPing? I'm so confused Confused Grin

Fairenuff · 15/02/2013 12:34

And it will be there Mini. All throughout his life because the world around him doesn't UP like he is used to at home. What tools does he have for dealing with the real world?

He will try to take advantage of situations, like that one at school and because he's not so used to it he could make some pretty awful decisions later in life and have to face pretty awful consequences.

BertieBotts · 15/02/2013 12:42

I don't think it's a reward at all to tell them they can do something later - isn't this just true of anything? Unless you don't usually let them play on the wii during the day at all in which case - why are they asking to play on it in the first place? I quite often say "No, we're not getting sweets today, maybe another day."

I really really think UP is not that different to "regular" parenting. I think some people try to make it out as some massively big thing when it's not. This is (to be fair) something I've realised only fairly recently because for a while I did think that parents-who-don't-do-UP were all heavily reliant on punishments/rewards which is obviously not the case. And I think that sometimes parents don't want to impose boundaries by way of punishments and hence they stumble on UP as a way of thinking and adopt it, but still are pretty wishy-washy and don't set boundaries. And I can think of some parents I know who will happily punish but are wishy-washy with their boundaries and the children walk all over them.

BertieBotts · 15/02/2013 12:44

I think it's sad that your DS was denied that Mini! I get that the teachers probably can't stay in at break all the time but it would perhaps have been helpful to find out why he wanted to stay in and talk to the teachers rather than go outside and play with the other children.

Cat98 · 15/02/2013 13:00

I don't do UP but I practice a lot of the principles and I think it makes a lot of sense. As has been said, it falls down practically sometimes because of circumstances. But I think just adopting some of the ideas and theories has helped me become a 'better' parent.
Sometimes I just have to use rewards. I can't see another way. But I try and relate them to the situation - same with consequences: I think the type of 'punishment' kohn is talking about is something totally unrelated to the misdemeanour.
I do believe it won't work with every child, though!

Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 15/02/2013 13:05

I give my children choices or just ignore bad behaviour.... If I show interest when they are being good and ignore the bad, it passes quickly.

I don't think rewards are a great idea all the time, but in cse's definitely worth it. I remember DS1 hating hairdresser and so I offered him to choose some sweets if he went in. He did and was impeccably behaved! And no, he doesn't expct sweets everytime, he just seemed to grow out of his fear of the hairdressers as he got older.

OP posts:
Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 15/02/2013 13:05

Cse's should read some cases!

OP posts:
MiniTheMinx · 15/02/2013 13:30

I don't think it will be there (what ever that is) all through his life. He was 6 years old. At 12 he is self motivated. What I would say is that he can be and always has been rather manipulative which is why I don't use rewards/punishment of the usual variety. A manipulative child/person loves rewards/sanctions, lots of boundaries and conflict because they thrive on creating situations where they can "win" so if I were to say, get your coat on we are going out, he might expect me to entice him with sweets/toys. I don't have to because he hasn't come to expect that I will. IYSWIM.

I would have done the same with the wii Fairenuff I wouldn't though make a request and then give further incentives for a child to do as I asked. The natural consequence of not saving the game before the power cut is the game is lost.

MavisG · 15/02/2013 13:55

If you're happy with how you were raised, felt loved by your parents and continue, if they're alive, to have happy relationships with them, then how lovely, you can trust your instincts and don't need to trouble yourself with a single parenting book. Good for you.

Some of us aren't. Some of us had deeply unhappy childhoods raised by parents who had a horrible time when they were kids. These books are lifesavers for us. And some people do get a bit evangelical and may come across as smug - it's probably borne of insecurity. They're doing their best.

How smug you sound, who imply i'm a credulous fool for not 'simply' following my instincts (instincts which are violent, shouty, irritable, short tempered, given to use shaming, easily triggered by normal child behaviour).

I'm an UP. I am sometimes ineffectual, though I'm getting more effective as I gain more experience of being a parent. I'm doing my best, same as most people. So find what compassion you can for other parents, or fuck off.

MavisG · 15/02/2013 13:58

I should have previewed that. My fuck off was unnecessarily shouty.

Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 15/02/2013 14:04

Mavis makes a good point. I have a fab relationship with my mum. I have very many happy memories of doing crafts and going out on adventures with her and my brother. I parent like my mum parented me.
My DH however, had a terrible time including DV. He is an amazing father but constantly questions what he does as a father and worries about turning into his step father. I think he would be the type to read a book, iykwim..... So fourth at reason, they do have a purpose.

OP posts:
SJisontheway · 15/02/2013 14:06

I'm confused at how a punishment dished out by someone else (eg shool detention for being late) is being classed as a "natural consequence". It seems that some parents have no problem with their children being punished, so long as they are not th bad guy. I prefer to take responsibility for my child's behaviour rather than leaving it to someone else.
Also, I think many of us can't see how it works with more than one child, because a child's bad behaviour has consequences for others, as well as themselves - eg siblings also being late, other children getting hurt.
For those who find these scenarios just never arise, I would suggest this has more to do with your children's personalities than parenting technique. I still maintain, for some children these techniques can't, and could never work.

MavisG · 15/02/2013 14:35

Schools are places where reward & punishment are used. If my children want to go to school (I will probably encourage them to later though we home ed ATM while they're young) I want it to be when they're old enough to understand that if they choose to go there, for all the benefits school can offer, they'll need to accept the reward/punishment rules too.

MavisG · 15/02/2013 14:40

With more than one child, upsetting siblings is part of the consequence of hurting them. (Siblings get upset at parental punishments/bad atmosphere/shouting in house too, whatever you do if someone in the family is going through a tough time & taking that out on the others then upset is part of the consequence). So you point that out, maybe ask sibling to say how they are feeling.
You do need to start from the premise that humans are innately social, evolved to want to fit in with their families and societies and have a deep need to know what's expected of them and others.