to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

Entertaining/informative thread.. laughing at last posts.

Having struggled immensely to maintain a friendship with a friend because of her parenting in this manner for the last 4 years. I'm grateful to feel that I'm not alone in some of my questioning of it and whilst I've been quite upset to find us disagree I've never really been able to voice my logic and reasons into answers but this has helped me hugely.

Our Youth Offending Team seem to use UP. When a little cow darling chucked her books at me I was asked if I saw her do it. No, because I had just shut the door. Oh, we say that if we didn't see it, it didn't happen.

So, the loud noise of three books hitting the door I was closing, the books on the floor....just a hallucination and not worth mentioning....

That was my experience also joyful, when dd1 was wee...and being my first I doubted my own intuition in the face of friends approach. I tried too hard to make it ok, and I really regret not removing dd1 from the friendship MUCH earlier. It's all very well for the UP child....but what message is it sending the child who is an the receiving end of un-checked outbursts from the UP child? I'm not prepared to teach my children that it is ok to be continually mistreated by a friend and keep returning for more

In our case, the other child has now out grown the aggressive phase and is pleasant. My friendship with the mum is rekundled 4 years on. Bur I absolutely dont trust her to take care of my dd. In UP situations its not possible to treat other children with equal respect. There can only be 1 centre of the universe

At the meerest sniff of a UP approach these days, you won't see me for dust. I would literally leave you mid sentence

Hope you all enjoy writing your books and making money out of credulous people.

Because the thing that Up is NOT is an excuse for letting your child run ferral.

If anyone says they let their child hurting another because they use UP, they 1- haven't really read the book and 2- are just using an excuse for poor parenting.

at the "performing monkeys" comment. As usual, the same smug and irritating justification for the superiority of UP. God it's all so unbearable. Just have the kid, feed it, love it, teach solid consequences and boundaries, talk and interact with it, and hopefully most won't grow up into serial killers or psychopaths. That's the aim here guys isn't it?

why use a book to raise children why have a style at all it really really baffles me

I am a following UP. I have two ds's. All this talk of 'no boundaries' I just don't get. Alfie repeatly says that this is not an excuse to stop parenting, that children need boundaries.

What it is doing is instead of trying to control your children, you try to empower them.

And it's not easy - it's bloody hard work!

When I manage to be UP-ish ds and I get on much better and his general behaviour improves. He is often invited for playdates so he's not a monster. He behaves well at school.

The crux for me is helping him learn control instead of trying to impose mine.

And he does says please and thank you.

The parents I are doing this seem to be unhealthily obsessed with child psychology and development. Maybe doing a degree in something child related instead of using the kid as a project would be my sincere advice to some of them. I am dreading a visit to my UP friends house because it will be the same namby pamby "you could damage them by doing A and B" etc conversation. I will never get over how utterly bizarre it is how many gullible and otherwise educated people read books on things and follow them like a cult. Montessori is the latest cult in my area. UP is the second.

If you are a pleb scotty yes that is pretty much the aim. If you are trying to acheive parenting nirvana, then obviously you need to buy the book

After following many UP threads on MN over the years and from observations in the field, I conclude;

That most parents following a UP approach, find it beneficial because their own instinctive method of parenting is overly authoritarian, and they don't naturally listen to their kids or treat them with respect....fair enough, so far. Some people have not had good parenting role models.

The mistake UP parents make, is in thinking that everyone is instinctively authoritarian/doesnt listen/explain to their children. They fail to see that most parents intuitively listen/explain/teach empathy ...And for those of us to whom it comes naturally, we realise there is a middle ground and different situations call for different responses

I agree BigAudio. I've noticed that some UP parents(not all) assume others don't listen/talk/generally parent their kids properly and then find things to nitpick at. I was told that a dummy would be better for my ds than his thumb sucking habit because 'they say' so. Whoever the hell they are. I found that very upsetting to hear not to mention insensitive and smug. And I was told I was 'too harsh' on ds because I disciplined him in a way my friend didn't approve of. And no it didn't include smacking or shouting. I don't like these assumptions and I don't appreciate being lectured by someone I just want to relax and have a cuppa with.

See, I don't back away slowly...I turn on my heel and march; whilst deleting their number from my phone

Laqueen What do you think of us all banding together and producing a naice book informing parents to chill the fcuk out and stop over analysing?

Hmm..I'm lucky to have never suffered from politeness. Probably some failing on the part of my parents, what with them never having read Alfie Kohn and blah blah blah zzzzzzz.......

There is one scotty! I think its called 'Paranoid Parenting'...I bought it after an MN UP thread, which wad incidentally very much more in support of UP than these days....is the tide turning?

It's in my bookshelf, I never read it. I'll seek it out...

Ohh please do. If you don't want it I'll buy it from you ;)

Liking it v much ;) anyone have tips to cope with UP friend comments at my next visit ?

I think its mini back down the page, inferring that if you give your kids rewards, then you have 'trained monkeys'. It's actually really fucking superior and insulting. My kids have rewards pretty often, which they lap up. They are also very strong willed bloody minded little madams, that I challenge any primate trainer to tame

but mine are tame and that was the point I was making, not tame because they have to be, to meet with approval but because they are. I am not suggesting that rewards maketh monkeys or that anyone's child is a primate. I was aware though that some children, some academic achievers (DS1 not DS2) could become insecure and start to under perform because they develop a fear of failure. When you reward a child for every new skill, the child learns that they are valued for what they do and not for who they are.

I don't work for wages but those who do, do you put in more hours than you are paid for? do you work harder even if you don't get extra pay or thanks?