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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

852 replies

GirlOutNumbered · 11/02/2013 20:54

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

OP posts:
BigAudioDynamite · 14/02/2013 07:17

The sun is a secondary light source sirboob???

Grin Grin at Lord of the Flies, mrOP!!

The main thing about UP, that makes me twitch; he proclamation that if you aren't UPing then your children will grow up believing that your love for them is conditional. That is the whole premise of the 'method'. That is the parents Achilles heel. It a con, using parents insecurities and fears

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 07:37

Lavender honey karma came to bit him in the bottom. Silly mother, a parent has to parent and that means correcting and disciplining yur children if they do wrong. In lavenders park situation what if that stone had hit her dd head and she had to be hospitalised, the full blame would be on that parent for not correcting the boy

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 07:39

Lavender I most certainly would have told tat boy off if the mother s going to sit back and let him do those things

flow4 · 14/02/2013 07:44

The mistake many parents make, however they raise their children, is believing that they can control how they turn out. But '3 Ps' shape a child - personality, parenting and peers. Self-satisfied parents forget they can't claim all the credit. And even if it were possible to parent perfectly, your child would still grow up with habits and behaviours and attitudes that did not come from you.

bigreddrum · 14/02/2013 07:55

I have a friend who is doing this technique with her son. I like a lot of the ideas behind it and she certainly has a lot more patience than me. However it is schooldidls' posts which made me take notice. My friends' son is going through a hitting stage at the moment and he is often drawn to my 18 month old - pushing, hitting, biting etc.. My friend tells him firmly to stop and tells him why (your friend is upset, you are making him sad, he won't want to play with you etc..) so far so good, HOWEVER all this takes TIME - as schooldidl herself says 'it takes a little longer'. Obviously if he doesn't stop he then removes him but it TAKES LONGER which means my son has to endure another minute of his hands being stood on / pinched etc.. than he would if she did as most parents do which is tell them to stop and then remove them as soon as they don't (if they don't). You can do the explaining AFTERWARDS when my son is not in pain.

I love my friend and her son, who is normally lovely, but I am finding it difficult to spend time with her at the moment because of this.

At the point when her son is hurting mine I don't actually care that he understands why it is not a good idea I JUST WANT HIM TO STOP, equally if my son is hitting someone else's I think it is more important to care about the welfare of the other child (and show my son that I do) and so remove him as soon as possible (IMMEDIATELY!).

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 08:01

Bigred why don't you say something to the boy yourself and remove your ds immediately from the situation. I don't care how the parents parent, if mupy child is getting hurt ad nothing is done I would step in e.g don't hit ds it's not nice whilst removing ds from the situation

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 08:03

In general I would not sit round and let my child get hurt they are not an a renting experiment, I am sure that others feel the same

Original poster
GirlOutNumbered · 14/02/2013 08:12

My son was going through a stage of hitting and normally I am calm and tell him why we don't hit etc... However, he then hit his little brother, who was happily sat in a bumbo, in the face with a trident (Halloween leftover!).

I shouted HEY! So loudly DS1 burst into tears and dropped the trident. He hasn't done it again!! I'm not saying thats the right way, I really don't want to shout at everything, but sometimes gut reaction takes over and I suppose being a teacher means that I have a loud scary voice. Interesting though that he now chooses not to hit people.

And yes I did take the time after to explain why we didn't hit people etc, but I think he already knew all that. The hitting and other behaviour generally comes when he is tired and wants a reaction.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 14/02/2013 08:16

Well I do UP and I would remove DS straight away if he was hurting another child. It's not about avoiding anything which might possibly upset a child. You should still immediately do damage control if they are hurting someone or damaging something.

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 08:25

Meant Parenting experiment

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 08:26

That's good Bertie. Whatever your parenting style if your child is hurting another they should be removed and not be allowed to,continue

bigreddrum · 14/02/2013 08:36

yes you are right pigletmania I should and in fact have started to a bit now I have realised that she is taking too long. As I said it's not that she doesn't tell him no in a firm voice or that she doesn't remove him but it just takes a bit too long in my opinion. Also for some reason it makes me feel a bit angry that she is focussing on her child's 'feelings' when my child is being hurt. Maybe I am a bitch though?.
Glad to hear UP isn't about that Bertie? maybe it's just her interpretation of it.

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 08:48

Bigred you need to take control I think. Your ds comes first

pigletmania · 14/02/2013 08:50

No criticism on you but I would

bigreddrum · 14/02/2013 09:04

agreed piglet. I am a bit of a wimp Grin

Schooldidi · 14/02/2013 09:29

Dom Did you actually read the rest of the sentence you quoted? I said 'Hitting is a phase they grow out of if they are guided through it'. I did not say that they just grow out of it themselves, I said they need to be guided through the phase and out of the end of it. I am actually a teacher in a Secondary school and yes I do see some pupils hitting each other and you are quite right about it being pupils who haven't had consistent boundaries, but here's the important thing that isn't the same as UP. The children I see without the boundaries generally have quite chaotic home lives with parents who haven't really thought about how they are bringing up their children. That isn't what UP parents are.

Schooldidi · 14/02/2013 09:36

Bigred I didn't mean it takes longer to remove my child from a situation where they are hurting another. It most definitely does not take me longer than any other parent to stop my child from hurting another. It takes me longer AFTER the incident to explain to my child exactly what was wrong with that behaviour. IE an explanation takes longer than the usual 'you're going in time out because you hit X' that I see my friends doing.

Fairenuff · 14/02/2013 09:47

I am still struggling to see how UPing is that different to 'regular' parenting. So you still give consequences - if you don't brush your teeth, you can't have any sugar - pretty normal parenting in my eyes. You would still remove a child from a situation where they are hurting another, and explain why - again normal parenting.

What is really so different?

Does the child get to choose at what they eat and at what time they eat, what time they go to bed, whether or not they go to school, all that sort of stuff which is normally not negotiable under 'normal' parenting?

Schooldidi · 14/02/2013 09:56

Fairenuff I don't think it IS much different to 'regular' parenting. There aren't any punishments or rewards, not even praise. That's probably the only way I'm any different to any of the other parents I meet. I don't use punishments, but there may be consequences of their actions (which a lot of people don't see as being different to punishments but I see quite a big difference).

intravenouscoffee · 14/02/2013 09:58

My children get time out and an explanation. Otherwise I don't see how they work out what they did wrong. So, DD hits friend. I pick her up whilst saying, "we do not hit" in a shouty firm voice. She has a time out. Then I tell her why she had the time out and why it is wrong to hit. Then she has to come and apologise. I certainly wouldn't let her carry on hurting someone whilst I explained why her behaviour was wrong.

intravenouscoffee · 14/02/2013 10:01

What is the difference between a consequence and a punishment? Genuine question.

RememberTheGoodTimes · 14/02/2013 10:01

I have followed UP for my 2 and tbh I am very very glad I have.
Imo, UP isn't about letting the child doing whatever they want (As far as I know AK has never said that at all). It's about:
1- not using punishment and rewards as a one fit all solutions to all situations and,
2- when something happens, start with the assumptions that the child hasn't done anything wrong.

So that means that if you see a child hurting someone you will do something about it but if you hear some screams in the room next door, you don't automatically assume that your child has been naughty and hurt the other child.
It also means that you don't use fear (of the punishment) to keep a child in line, nor bribery (because that's what star charts etc... are. If you do X, you will get a sweet type of thing).

Interestingly enough I actually had no choice in doing UP because with dc2 (and to some extend dc1), punishment or reward never ever worked. Punishment just meant a child who was distressed, upset but had no idea of what he had done wrong. rewards, well he just didn't care what so ever.
The only thing I have consistently done is the 'going into your room to calm down' with the understanding that the child can come out at any point, whenever they feel they are calm enough again. A very necessary safety feature because of dc2 lashing out in anger on a daily basis.

I found that it worked for us because:
1- it made me explain, take time with dc2 to explain in words he could understand why x wasn't Ok to do.
2- It didn't say 'this child is naughty and is choosing to be like this/to hurt people etc...' but 'this is a child that has a problem. How can I help him?' The problem quite often has been plain education (ie he hasn't learnt yet that ....).
Moving on a few more years from the toddler times, I still use the same approach and I am very glad that I have because dc2 has been diagnosed with HFA.
So in effect, a lot of the techniques that I had put in place were actually exactly the ones I needed to have to parent dc2 effectively (and tbh, if this worked with dc2 with HFA, then surely it was going to work with NT dc1?).

One last word, there is a book often proposed as a fantastic solution to behaviour/parenting issue on MN. This is the How to talk to children. Tbh, their approach is my book along the same lines than UP. It's quite practical when AK goes into the reason and the philosophy of it and very little into the how. But they aren't that different.

mrsjay · 14/02/2013 10:02

What is the difference between a consequence and a punishment? Genuine question.

ZILCH imo.

RememberTheGoodTimes · 14/02/2013 10:03

Punishment is something you do to your child (eg you send him in time out) whereas a consequence is something that happen naturally (you don't put your coat on you get cold or you damage my ipad because you are reckless with it, I am not going to lent it to you again)

RememberTheGoodTimes · 14/02/2013 10:04

There is no wish to put a child off doing something because they don't like the punishment imposed by you (ie the modification of the behaviour is based on fear of how unpleasant the punishment is)