to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

the body can I please borrow your post and put it on my FB wall (I'll give you all the credit of course)

That post by TheBody sums it up beautifully.

Cory the intention is to make sure you have got the child into the routine of knowing there teeth need brushing how to do it correctly and how important it is before they reach an age when they should be able to do it themselves, that may be 5 it may not be.

The child should recive guidance support and behaviour education until such time as they no longer need it and can be trusted to decide to do the best for themselves.

Unfortunatly some people misunderstand the idea and think it means the parent does nothing and use UP as an excuse for cba but that's a indervidual being crap not the intended method.

Agree totally with TheBody

Also, can I ask where you get one of these rational children from?

My 3 year old has taken to her bed in a sulky protest because I tried to explain that snow does not automatically mean it's Christmas.

Earlier I was being completely unreasonable because I couldn't magic Alex Ferguson out of thin air

would you say good role model parents were essential?

Sockreturningpixie Wed 13-Feb-13 13:28:24
"Cory the intention is to make sure you have got the child into the routine of knowing there teeth need brushing how to do it correctly and how important it is before they reach an age when they should be able to do it themselves, that may be 5 it may not be."

The TCS website I read suggests that you should never make the child do anything they don't want as that is coercion.

I even found a bit where David Deutsch the founder of the movement said it is wrong to make a child wear a seatbelt if they don't want to: you should either cancel the journey or let them travel without it, "just make sure not to have an accident".

Other posters state that if the child doesn't want to have their teeth cleaned it is wrong to interfer with their autonomy; this seems based on the idea that the 5yo self who doesn't want teeth cleaned deserves as much respect as their adult self who might not want rotten teeth later in life.

So if your 3yo decides he doesn't want his teeth cleaned, you simply can't get him into the routine according to orthodox TCS. TCs is built on libertarian philosophy and based around the idea that there is no right and wrong and that children know what is best for them even if it

Note, that I am well aware that UP and TCS are not the same. It's the TCS lot who appear to be loons.

Chunderella a proper UP parent wouldn't 'just' put the child on their knee. They would explain to the child why it wasn't a nice thing to do and showing them how upset the other child is. Small children hit each other. It's a phase that they grow out of if guided through it. How do you want other parents to deal with it? What does it teach a child to be put into time out? Is that genuinely more effective than the explanation.

Sorry I did not realise you were talking about TCS,

There must be a reason I know nothing about that [ grin]

I agree with the specific praise thing. We try to praise for effort made, perseverance, thoughtfulness etc.

I dont actually think there is anything wrong with "punishment" for bad behaviour.
Child does something bad to another child, child experiences unpleasant consequence.
That is what I think is often wrong at school;
Certain children bully and dominate relentlessly, yet there never seem to be any consequences that these children actually care about.
The hittee gets told that they should be better at sticking up for themselves and telling the teacher, and the hitter is told that that wasn't a very nice thing to do. Well, in year 2 they know that it isn't a very nice thing to do. Perhaps if there was some kid of deterrent they might not do it.
I am not talking cattle prods and beating here, just something, rather than nothing.
Children are quite simple really, and they themselves have a highly developed sense of justice. When Augustus Gloop goes up the pipe you may think that he was a free thinking, insecure boy with an overeating addiction, and that what happened to him was not at all constructive.Children think that he fully deserved it...

I told my husband about UP. he said 'have they not read lord of the flies?!'

It was me who said 'sit child on lap'

I did also make it clear that this would be accompanied by talking about it being unacceptable

I'm eternally grateful I have never met an UP child. It would not end well.

I shout, smack occasionally, hug a lot, EBF, co sleep sometimes, send DD2 to her room until she wants to be nice and have never own a parent facing pushchair.

I use rewards occasionally and praise if deserved and lots and lots of reasoning and explaining.

I call it the only muddling along with what seems to work school of parenting.

And you know what it seems to work, DD1 is the nicest teenager your ever likely to meet and DD2 gets school reports which glow in the dark.

They are both feisty, opinionated and as different as chalk and cheese.

And at 15 and 12 we rub along without me ever having to remove privileges, dock pocket money or cancel things and thus avoid a whole lot of resentment and angst.

Well star sounds like your approach works very well in your family, change nothing carry on as you are and share the muddle on method.

Write a book get rich

heard something true and amusing recently,

'For the first 3 years we teach them how to walk and talk, for the rest of their lives we tell them to sit down and shut up.'

No book writing here, I'd need to get DD2 to 18 first and I ought have at least two DS to complete my research and at 45 that seems unlikely.

DD1 is a very quirky dyslexic with a deep self confidence and a huge amount of common sense. She's naturally immune to peer pressure and refuses to be a rebellious teen.

DD2 is her complete opposite, so as I say, research in through will continue for a few years yet.

Research in muddling through

I know that Sears who is a bit of an AP-type guru says don't let your children choose whether they get to brush their teeth or not, because they took that approach with their eldest daughter and her dental health was terrible. They were a bit more hard-line with the rest, but suggested fun ways of being persuasive, DS likes "the food game" where I have to look in his mouth and say ooh, look, a green bit, what have you eaten which is green? etc repeat with various colours. Or the eee and aaah song which means he has to make the sound eeeeee to a tune or aaaaah - because that gets the mouth in a good position for brushing!

Then I made an excellent discovery one night when he was on a huge refusal kick, I said, okay, I respect your decision to not brush your teeth, but that does mean that you can't eat anything with sugar in. Which means no ice cream, no sweets, no fruit. Unless you want to change your mind and brush your teeth.

He lasted until the second story at which point he suddenly seemed to have a realisation and asked "Can I have sugar on my corn flakes?" and I said no, not unless you brush your teeth. He ran

BertieBotts that is a clear saction dressed up as somthing eslse

So basically you told him if you dont brush your teeth you wont have any sweets

That is a sanction if ever i have heard one is ok you dont need to dress it up and up its what most parents would do go brush your teeth now or no seewts sorry love but i wouldnt need a book to tell me to do that with my kids

Schooldidi really " children grow out of hitting " i surpect you have never worked with children over 3 in a ducatioal setting i worked in after school clubs for years when younger 4-11 years old and i can tell you children dont just grown out of hitting they are taught not to hit well some are

The ones who hit usually have no boundries there parents are either cant or will not displine there children with the expection of SN children i find parents children who hit,bully and pull hair inafectual and i sure a high school teacher will tell me i wrong if i am these children who

DONT LEARN at a young age that its wrong to hit ,bully just go on to do it at high school then sadly they turn up at the work place we all know somone like this somone used to getting there own way they dont grow out of it they just grow bigger and more alble

I never heard such a thing in my life

I came across a mum practising this method in the park. Her ds of about 6 started throwing sticks and sand at my dd aged 3. My ds ( about 6) asked him to stop. Dd ignored him. The mum just watched and commented he wanted her attention. I gave the boy a hard stare and he picked up a large stone and threw it at dd, hitting her stomach. Dd burst into tears, my ds shouted at the boy to leave her alone, boy just grinned and his mum said " he has to learn by trial other kids don't like that" she didn't tell him off or anything.

Dd dried her tears, went back to the sandpit, and seconds later the other boy was in hysterics as she had collected the stone and threw it at his head. I collected dd, and said we don't throw stones etc etc, time to go, and the boys mum was holding him tightly whilst he yelled abuse at dd and saying " I know how you feel, I understand your pain"