to not know what unconditional parenting is?!

[GirlOutNumbered]

Just read it on a thread. I have no idea what this is?

Thanks Sock, I am finding this discussion really interesting, considering alternatives to what we do currently and I may be understanding it fully but it seems to be focusing on children taking responsibility for their actions, once they have the skills to do so. Hope I have that correc.t

No removing from a situation is not time out.

Time out is usually removing from situation and placing in a kinda isolated or pre arranged area for private thinking for a minute for each year you have been alive.

Removing from the situation is just that removing to prevent harm/ distress to others or the child but not isolating or often not completely leaving a venue ( unless venue is mobile or its needed to protect others right to enjoyment). It can be as simple as picking up placing on lap or as drastic as putting in car and going home but its impact on others that often decides.but no enforced time other than how long it takes to make it clear that is not ok behaviour and if appropriate why.

Blueberry

That is bang on right.

Oops missed out a not, as in I may not be ...

I realised that I do it all the time.

Can't read whole thread.

I love my 4 unconditionally.

However in my 23 years as a parent, paediatric nurse, child minder and TA I have learned.

If you ignore bad behaviour it gets worse.
If you praise children and listen to them they blossom.
If you don't put a nappy on a toddler they shit on the floor!!
If you put a child in a forward facing pushchair they don't give a shiny shite and it doesn't damage them for life.
If you sling your baby lovely, if you sling a big toddler you usually put your back out.
If you ignore tantrums, biting screaming and such then you raise a monster brat who everyone avoids and dislikes.
If you co sleep( fine) you eventually end up putting them into their own bed.
If you set strong boundaries and rules of bedtime, sleeping, behaviour and expectations children feel loved, safe and secure.

If your toddler is in charge of you then he/she will be in charge of you as a teenager.

If parenting is very complicated or full of books and following rules then you are doing something wrong( excepting SN children)

Children need fun, love, education and good role model parents to thrive.

All else is fashion and nonsense.

I love your post thebody

I wish this were Facebook so I could 'like' thebody's comment.

Totally agree the body hurray for that!

Blimey!!! I must be having a good night as usually I am crap!! Thanks guys.

OK, so I did do timeout then, because I would remove ds from the room entirely. Surely if a child is hitting another child, being taken away to sit on your lap does not give the message that they have really been doing anything wrong.
Ds had a phase of hitting me at 2. I would say "no" and immediately place him in his cot. After that happened about 3 times he got the message and has never hit anyone since.

Sometimes I still sort of do timeout in that if ds is being wilfully unpleasant I tell him to go in his room and calm down, which he usually doesn't like, but then comes and apologises.

I am all for the idea that you should think about how your behaviour affects others, and I do encourage empathy(and happen to have a highly empathetic child-woo stealth boast) BUT if there are no real perpetrator affecting consequences then how do you really stop unpleasant behaviour?

For example, at school there are a few children who hit/ pinch/ generally bully. There never seem to be any actual consequences that theses children don't like. So, you can tell them that their behaviour makes other children sad. But what if they don't care? After all, it doesn't affect them.

UP seems to be about treating children as though they have the emotional maturity of adults. But they don't.Also, as an adult, if I hit you I would have to go to court and maybe even jail. There are consequences and punishments in life.

I agree thebody-cept for the nappy thing-I hated changing pooey ones so much I did "elimination thingummy" from about 1 yr, which worked great for us.
And, really, are forward facing buggies supposed to be bad now? I didn't know! I learn so much on MN! Thank God I never went on it when I was lone parenting a toddler else I might have cracked up with the wrongness of my play pen/forward facing pushchair/ mashed up food muddling though approach!
(Ds not scarred for life as far as I can tell...)

It prevents them from continuing and if you are clear as to why they cannot do it,then yes they learn.

And there are always consequences but we call them natural consequences/ sanctions

Its not that different from what most parents do but its just got a silly name nowadays.

In my opinion, Alfie Kohn's book is quite good on the theory of why not to use rewards and punishments, but weak on the practice of how to set boundaries while not using rewards and punishments (and there's the question of what you term a punishment - I physically stop my toddler doing lots of things, but don't give him timeouts for example).

The book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen... seems like the best practical guide I've seen as to how to set boundaries without rewards and punishments, but is mostly aimed at children old enough to have a bit of a sense of reasoning, although some parts are still useful with younger children.

There are of course plenty of folk who use the term Unconditional Parenting to mean permissive parenting rather than parenting without rewards/punishments, which makes it a tricky topic to discuss as the two have become equated in many places.

thebody I agree, except I sling my HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE 20 month old and don't put my back out-but I don't do it because I think pushchairs are crap, I do it because I'm too lazy to push an empty pushchair when he wants to walk, and carrying him means I can justify ice cream in the evening

I totally agree with Sock. I read a lot about "Taking Children Seriously" (TCS) when my DC were small (about 18 years ago). TCS is similar to UP and it gave me a lot to think about. I could not go along with the extreme evangelists for TCS but basically followed their thought processes. It was not easy (certainly not for those who CBA), esp with DD who has ASD traits. It was easier because I home-educated, so I could be consistent and could choose which battles to fight (e.g. not having to do the school run, so if we were late or did not get somewhere, it was the DC who missed out not me feeling bad for not meeting my commitment to school).

My DC knew from an early age that hitting, etc. was not OK and they are mature, sensible young adults with friends and able to follow both social norms and "arbitrary" rules when it is part and parcel of what they want to achieve (e.g. in college). They are not entitled or feral. Like Sock, I would remove from a situation and would restrain if necessary. I knew I wanted to raise DC that I would be happy to be around as adults and made choices (inc HE) that allowed me to play the long game. Incidentally, as teens we had very few issues. By that time, we knew what it was to live with mutual respect and I did not have to deal with conflict between my contract with the school and my contract with my DC.

LaQ DS1 only hears blah blah blah, lunch, blah, blah, blah like Homer Simpson. Neatly illustrated at the weekend when I asked 3 times 'do you want lunch now?' all ignored.

I then went in to DH and said I BET DS1 comes in any minute and says 'Where's my lunch?' And so DS1 came in and said 'I thought you were making my lunch' and so I said 'well you didn't answer and so I thought I'd wait until you asked'.

He swore that he had absolutely said yes he wanted his lunch whereas I KNOW the answer was given in DS world where he lives his other life. I really do think a parents voice becomes so second nature that it's like some background track to our DC's lives

I think I love thebody a little what a great post

*I am deeply suspicious of anyone who requires umpteen child-care books, to reference, before they can so much as put their baby on their hip "Oh, you see, I have researched this, and I only ever carry my baby in the Hirsch-Reichman position, as evidenced by the Hamouli tribe of New Guinea, who have exemplary posture...yadda...yadda...yadda'

Oh do sod off *

I luvs you too

Nice one thebody!

Err...yeah...I think she about summed it up for me!

Absolutely agree with you thebody!

And you LaQ

(no original thoughts in my head today!)

nor mine probably wouldnt be able to put it as well anyway

Just googled TCS and they are wonderful, wonderful loons

actually, I probably do a lot of unconditionally stuff without even noticing, as my greatgrandparents probably did before me- a lot of it just seems like common sense

but the TCS is something different again!

according to the websites, you are not supposed to make the child brush their teeth if he doesn't want to, because it is his decision to have toothache

right, as if the 35yo businesswoman is going to be happy to live with decisions taken by her 5yo self