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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say he can't go to stag do if there are going to be strippers?

695 replies

DelphineD · 09/02/2013 23:10

I'm sorry if this ends up being long; I will try to keep it as concise as possible.

Last year DP went to a stag do (first one that has come up whilst we have been together). It was one of his closest friends, and one that I previously liked and respected. They were away for 2 nights. I had wondered if some sort of strip thing might be involved but I thought probably not as the friend was not that kind of man and DP assured me when he got back that there was nothing of the kind. I later found out (through my scarily good investigation and interrogation!!) that this was not the case. On the first night they had been to a strip club and on the second night there were topless waitresses at their apartment for about 3 hours. This info came out bit by bit. Each time DP would insist there was nothing more to tell, then I found out something else. Eventually I think I got a full confession out of him but it was difficult to be sure as he had lied so many times about it. I also got out of him that there had been topless waitresses at a work party he had attended some time before (I had suspected something wrong and he had always denied it before.) He claimed all this was not of his doing, it was not really of interest to him and he just went along with it because they were in a group and he didn't want to make a fuss etc etc. If he had had a lap dance, I would have broken up with him (friend had a lap dance and the man has gone down a lot in my estimation.) As it was I nearly broke up with him anyway. He knew how much I hated strippers and how I would feel about it, and he did it anyway. But I think the most damaging thing was the lying. I trusted him before, and he had destroyed all that.

We got over it and agreed that if there was anything like this again he would tell me the truth and face the music. He understands how much more damaging it was that he lied about it. Since then, I have been to a work party where there was a male stripper. I didn't know in advance but I did know once I got there and I could have come home. It seemed a bit hypocritical, but I went anyway. I just sat at the back, while some of the married women in my group, went up on stage, straddled the stripper, took their wedding rings off, etc etc. That made me think that I wasn't so worried about DP being present in a large room where women were stripping, it was how he behaved and the interaction that would bother me. Hence why I was more upset about the topless women in the apartment than the ones in the strip club. FWIW I believe he would have behaved in a similar way to me in his situation. But his friend having that lap dance upset me, and made me think you can't trust any man, even the ones who seem nice and like they really love their partners.

Now he has his DB's stag party coming up. It's in the city where we live, but some people will be coming from elsewhere so there will be an apartment rented again. He has said he will tell the truth about it this time. He has admitted that the best man is planning something to do with strippers but nothing is booked in yet. I'm already feeling upset about it already and I just don't want him to be around strippers at all. WIBU to say, if that is happening, I don't want you to go at all?

OP posts:
garlicblocks · 10/02/2013 14:04

I've been a customer in table/lap dancing bars, on business entertainment. I see a problem.

You know what I hated the most? That look on some of the men's faces. It's a scary look, sort of dead-eyed and predatory at the same time. Utterly focused on the girl. Still gives me the creeps to think about it. If you were a dancer, you must know the look I mean.

I also loathed the way some groups of men (at other tables - mine had manners, it was my account!) spoke to the dancers - deliberately insulting; worse than a farmer trying to beat the price down at a livestock market. The fact they must get off on rubbishing women's bodies. Very depressing.

badinage · 10/02/2013 14:05

'hysterical'

Know the origins of that word girl?

countrykitten · 10/02/2013 14:10

Girloutnumbered it is sad to hear that you (and so many others here on this thread) see nothing wrong with lap dancing clubs. I think agree with another poster who says that these women must be insecure and are worried that their men will up and leave if they do not agree to it.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 10/02/2013 14:14

Why are some women so determined to act cool with this? Why? If you cool wives can give me a legitimate reason for you not minding your DH/DP paying lots (the sex industry is pricey!) of cash for a titty jiggle from some poor, exploited Eastern European woman I will buy it.

Have we had "well I know lapdancers who are titty jiggling to find their masters in fine arts" yet? I bet we have. Hmm

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/02/2013 14:18

ledkr

Your annocdotal evidence is better than my annocdotal evidence, that made me chuckle.

BelaLugosisShed · 10/02/2013 14:20

"worse than a farmer trying to beat the price down at a livestock market. The fact they must get off on rubbishing women's bodies".

Yep, the punters I heard joking about the German club were discussing the size of the black dancer's nipples and which of the women had real tits - I didn't hang around to hear any more Angry .

GirlOutNumbered · 10/02/2013 14:21

Listen, it's not sad that I have a different opinion to you. I'm sure there are plenty of things we would and wouldn't agree about.

I am very secure in both myself as a women and as a wife. If my husband chose to go, that's his decision. It is not my place to say what he can do. If he did go, I'm sure he would be titalated by what he sees, that's the point of them.... What harm it is supposed to do I am not sure.

I have worked in five different lap dancing bars, one perhaps a bit seedier, but in all of them, a mix of men and women, low life and high fliers, just like you get in any bar around the country.

Any way, you will never see my point and I don't really care. It just makes me laugh as someone said up thread, that loads of people will get het up and post on this topic, but not something which perhaps people should be worrying about.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 10/02/2013 14:24

Why shouldn't people be worrying about their husbands/partners oiling the greasy cogs of an industry that harms/abuses/exploits women?

Why wouldn't you worry about that?

garlicblocks · 10/02/2013 14:25

Are you still a dancer, Girl?

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/02/2013 14:27

garlicblocks
"You know what I hated the most? That look on some of the men's faces. It's a scary look, sort of dead-eyed and predatory at the same time. Utterly focused on the girl. Still gives me the creeps to think about it. If you were a dancer, you must know the look I mean."

A similar thing but the flipside of this, The only time that I was ever scared when working a summer season in a theatre was when the chippendales was on. The looks on some of the womens faces was completely animalistic

BelaLugosisShed · 10/02/2013 14:32

The hyper-sexualisation of girls and women, women seen as things to be looked at and paid for, womens sexuality seen as purely for men, the culture of secrets and lies within relationships concerning mens' behaviour around the sex industry? No, not something people should be worrying about. Hmm

Garlic, your post reminds me of a programme on BBC 3 recently about strip clubs, that look you describe was prominent amongst the men shown, one was on a low sofa watching a woman on a head-height table in front of him , he was watching her unblinking like a reptile as she turned over, arse in the air, legs wide open, 6 inches from his face - it made me feel quite sick.

GirlOutNumbered · 10/02/2013 14:34

Sorry, I didn't make it clear. Not a dancer... Worked behind the bar at them whilst at uni. The tips were amazing.

MarmaladeTwatkins · 10/02/2013 14:34

Le sigh....

pigletmania · 10/02/2013 14:36

Really op your the issue here. You obviously don't trust him and this is coming out in your behaviour towards him, stifling him and treating him like a child. If its ok fo you to be around strippers it's ok fo him. He feels he has to lie Mabey as he's scared of your reaction. Give him some space. You don own him, he has every right to be at his brothers stag do I he wants. Why are you with him if you don't trust him!

MarmaladeTwatkins · 10/02/2013 14:40

She doesn't trust him for a good reason.

This isn't her problem.

Why does everyone keep saying he has a "right" to go on his bro's stag do? They aren't fucking compulsory, you know? It's not like he's not going to go to the wedding. You know? The day that actually matters?

And also, he has the "right" to go to the stag, but OP doesn't have the right to a DP that doesn't take part in objectifying women? Nice. Really nice.

countrykitten · 10/02/2013 14:41

Oh well GON - if the tips were amazing....Confused

BelleEtLaBaby · 10/02/2013 14:44

Um, I don't give or not give my DH 'permission' to do anything. I'm an adult in a marriage to another adult. Im not his mum. We both do what we want. I assume that the list of things DH does not want to do, of his own accord, includes having sex with other women. Isn't this a given?

If he is going to cheat on me, he'll do it, be that at a stag do, at work, or with one of the other million women he encounters all day throughout his life. If he cheats on me, I'll throw him out. I'm pretty sure that DH isn't going to leap from his default position of fidelity to madly shagging some waitress girl just because she waved her boobs in his face or sat on his lap. He's not an animal and I credit him with some self control and an ability to make decisions.

Op: you sound very overly concerned. Have you been cheated on before, or did your parents break up because of infidelity or something like this? Honestly, you must trust your dp and assume he is not going to cheat on you. If he is the sort of bloke who would cheat on you just because of peer pressure or opportunity, do you really want him to stick around anyway?

Please do not beg for his fidelity. Assume it. Leave him if he breaks it.

GirlOutNumbered · 10/02/2013 14:44

What's your point Kitten?

garlicblocks · 10/02/2013 14:45

That sounds odd to me, Boney, because the male strip things I've been to - including a Chippendales show - were all about laughter. Everybody was hamming it, act and audience alike. But now you've mentioned it, actually, I remember a couple of women at the Chippendales who did seem to be taking it all a bit too seriously. They were constantly on the corner of the stage, looking kind of - I would have said desperate, but predatory might be just as true. Weird.

In tune with Seeker's posts and others, though, there simply cannot be a direct comparison until men are as oppressed by women as is currently true in reverse. The man my colleagues hired for a good-humoured body oil extravaganza was in no danger at all of unwanted handling, molestation or rape. His show reminded me of what pub stripograms used to be like in the olden days when I were young Wink Suggestive, yes, but with all of the emphasis on humour. It's just not like that any more. I wish it were; for a humorous entertainment to work, there has to be mutual respect.

jellybeans · 10/02/2013 14:51

YANBU. I would hate it too. I hate the way it has been 'normalised' by much of society at the cost of women and young girls. My elderly SFIL recently made me cringe when talking about a stag do he was going on soon, there would be meals out, strip clubs etc he just said it so casually but I found it grim.

jellybeans · 10/02/2013 14:58

'Why are some women so determined to act cool with this? Why? '

This is an interesting book on the subject www.amazon.co.uk/Female-Chauvinist-Pigs-Raunch-Culture/dp/1416526382

I think some women have the attitude 'if you can't beat em join em' sort of thing. I also know several who don't want to be seen as prudes so brag about what their hubbies do on a night out. They may think their husbands are less likely to stray but it often turns out that they seem to think they can get away with it. After all sex with someone else isn't that big a step from a naked lap dance.

garlicblocks · 10/02/2013 14:59

If none of you want to answer my suggestion that you strip off for a load of random blokes next time your OH goes out with the lads, Girl, Piglet & co, please will you tell me what you think of this?

Another story from my vast archive of Things We Used To Spend Our Entertainment Budgets On ...

We had a male boss who was quite fond of a strip night. So, for his birthday one year, we booked an alternative theatre group as a sort of large-scale stripogram experience. They 'invaded' our restaurant and did an absolutely superb act, which culminated with a man dressed as a female stripper, who gave the boss a lap dance Grin

We cut it short a little bit because the boss was so upset. He'd already got the point, anyway.

GirlOutNumbered · 10/02/2013 15:01

I don't understand your point Garlic? Why on earth is it relevant?

countrykitten · 10/02/2013 15:06

GON - my point was that you seemed to be bragging about your tips as if this somehow made it ok. You picked up your tips because letchy men were there watching other women flash their tits. Can't you see how seedy that is?

garlicblocks · 10/02/2013 15:08

Why is what relevant, Girl? Here's what I've been asking, in various ways:
As you and your partner are so cool about men paying for the harmless enjoyment of a pretty girl stripping off, it follows logically that
[a] It will be totally harmless and cool if you strip off for drunk men you don't know, and
[b] It will be equally harmless and cool if a man strips off for your DH.