To say he can't go to stag do if there are going to be strippers?

[DelphineD]

I'm sorry if this ends up being long; I will try to keep it as concise as possible.

Last year DP went to a stag do (first one that has come up whilst we have been together). It was one of his closest friends, and one that I previously liked and respected. They were away for 2 nights. I had wondered if some sort of strip thing might be involved but I thought probably not as the friend was not that kind of man and DP assured me when he got back that there was nothing of the kind. I later found out (through my scarily good investigation and interrogation!!) that this was not the case. On the first night they had been to a strip club and on the second night there were topless waitresses at their apartment for about 3 hours. This info came out bit by bit. Each time DP would insist there was nothing more to tell, then I found out something else. Eventually I think I got a full confession out of him but it was difficult to be sure as he had lied so many times about it. I also got out of him that there had been topless waitresses at a work party he had attended some time before (I had suspected something wrong and he had always denied it before.) He claimed all this was not of his doing, it was not really of interest to him and he just went along with it because they were in a group and he didn't want to make a fuss etc etc. If he had had a lap dance, I would have broken up with him (friend had a lap dance and the man has gone down a lot in my estimation.) As it was I nearly broke up with him anyway. He knew how much I hated strippers and how I would feel about it, and he did it anyway. But I think the most damaging thing was the lying. I trusted him before, and he had destroyed all that.

We got over it and agreed that if there was anything like this again he would tell me the truth and face the music. He understands how much more damaging it was that he lied about it. Since then, I have been to a work party where there was a male stripper. I didn't know in advance but I did know once I got there and I could have come home. It seemed a bit hypocritical, but I went anyway. I just sat at the back, while some of the married women in my group, went up on stage, straddled the stripper, took their wedding rings off, etc etc. That made me think that I wasn't so worried about DP being present in a large room where women were stripping, it was how he behaved and the interaction that would bother me. Hence why I was more upset about the topless women in the apartment than the ones in the strip club. FWIW I believe he would have behaved in a similar way to me in his situation. But his friend having that lap dance upset me, and made me think you can't trust any man, even the ones who seem nice and like they really love their partners.

Now he has his DB's stag party coming up. It's in the city where we live, but some people will be coming from elsewhere so there will be an apartment rented again. He has said he will tell the truth about it this time. He has admitted that the best man is planning something to do with strippers but nothing is booked in yet. I'm already feeling upset about it already and I just don't want him to be around strippers at all. WIBU to say, if that is happening, I don't want you to go at all?

I'll answer you seeker, but I have to get my disclaimer in first. I'm not 'happy' about DH using strippers and lapdancers and if it was part of his regular schedule then it would be a deal breaker but I am coming from this from the pov of occasionally, at a stag party, maybe ten times over the course of a lifetime (he's actually been twice and most of his friends are married now) and a 'reputable' club and def not topless waitresses in a private apartment and for some reason 'abroad' would be a deal breaker, prague for instance. I have a vague and unfounded idea that strippers (as opposed to prostitutes) will suffer more exploitation in some other countries than they do here. Anyway 'happy' isn't the right word, more apathetic.

1.Those of you who are happy for people to use LDCs and strippers, do you care at all about the women offering these services, and the conditions they work in?

Yes, I do care but obviously I don't care enough. I think its akin to never buying non fairtrade coffee or chocolate when I do my grocery shopping but today in a really awful chain pub I had a coffee and all my dcs had chocolate cake. I know it won't have been fairtrade and someone was exploited because I wanted coffee the same way that I know when dh has been to a strip club then the women are exploited but I push it to the back of my mind and attempt to justify it in the "Oh, it's not like its all the time" way. I am aware that this is a hideous attitude. There are a lot of things I try not to think to hard about. Slaughterhouses for example, and the factory conditions where my clothes are made and how much rainforest it takes to make a quarter pounder and the living conditions of the man who mined the diamond for the engagement ring that I don't even wear.

1. Would you be happy for your daughters to do the same work?"

No and I would try everything to talk them out of it. My cousin did it for about 6 months so I would probably enlist her to help me out. She went into it with a 'all you have to do is get your tits out and you can make in a night what you make in a month working at tesco' attitude which I think is quite common towards the 'not very exploited' end of the spectrum.

I just don't understand why you would be with someone that was happy to do something that you weren't, as you say, 'happy' with. Surely the whole point of being in a relationship is that you are there to make each other feel happy and secure!

Oh and My cousin went into it with the same attitude. She's now a crack addict.

The steak at home/burger away thing was said by Paul Newman ( explaining why he stayed faithful to her) about his wife Joanne Woodward and she hated it, fwiw.

It's hard to explain just how depressing the "being treated like a princess" statement is , to me, it's absolutely bog-standard loving behaviour that happens day in, day out in a good and respectful relationship, nothing special in being treated like a valued human being with physical and emotional needs - it's exactly how it should be.

My dad used to say the Steak/burger thing to my mum all the time. He cheated on her for 20 years. I hate that phrase.

I think when you are in a LTR with another person there are a myriad of things that you will both do that the other person is unhappy with to a greater or lesser extent. The point is going to a strip club on a stag night doesn't make me feel unhappy or insecure, it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable and guilty but not enough to LTB over any more than I would expect him to leave me if he found out that I had treated our children by buying them chocolate that someone else's children missed out on a childhood and an education to farm. The line is drawn in different places on different issues for different people. My line on this is somewhere beyond going to a strip club very occasionally on a stag night and before going to a strip club regularly for ordinary entertainment and having a lap dance for sexual gratification. I'm not saying that that is where everyones line should be but I just can't get worked up about it enough to even have an argument, let alone end the relationship. On the other hand, smoking is a deal breaker for me because I won't live with a smoker. This has got me the 'you sound like a control freak' treatment on here before as, to some people, it is a ridiculous thing to get worked up about.

I've no idea why people pick in the OP's interrogation approach. It doesn't mean that she's controlling, it means he's hiding something and lo and behold, he is and it is at best unsavoury. He wasn't forthcoming with the info, she felt something was off so pursued that. Why should she be kept in the dark? You think it's alright for one partner to be hiding things from another?

Dizzy yes, I understand what a prostitute is. That wasn't my question and there's really no need to be arsey. It's a discussion.

It's a false line, really. It's ok to pay a woman to take her clothes off, grind against you and push her vulva into your partner's face, but it's not ok to pay a woman to toss him off. To me it's the same. To you it's not.

Whatever the political implications are, and to me they're important but understand they're not to everyone, it all comes down to individual relationships and what you will and won't accept. It makes no sense to try to convince someone that it is ok for their partner to go to a strip club because for some people it just isn't ok.

Surely there are things that are deal breakers for you as well that to me would be no big deal.

You can't say that about the country the OP lives in and where those topless waitresses were booked. Because we don't know which country she lives in, just that it's not the UK. In many countries those waitresses are prostitutes. Hell, even in the UK where it's illegal to be a pimp, a lot of 'agencies' have to go to a lot of trouble to produce Rules and Procedures which nobody 'in the know' follows in practice, as long as the money is right.

Ok, TBF I Was speaking generally, and had forgot about the not in the UK thing by that point. (Typing here inbetween sorting my PC out, Sorry!). But the conversation does seem to involve aspects of the UK girls too.

1.Those of you who are happy for people to use LDCs and strippers, do you care at all about the women offering these services, and the conditions they work in?

Yes, And the ones i know of are perfectly happy. There are many areas and establishments which have less than satisfactory working conditions. This is not limited to LDCs, SCs etc.

It's a false line, really. It's ok to pay a woman to take her clothes off, grind against you and push her vulva into your partner's face, but it's not ok to pay a woman to toss him off. To me it's the same. To you it's not.

I didn't mean to come across as arsey, Sorry.

It's not a false line. It's about what you're comfortable with. That's all. If you say "I don't feel comfortable with you going to a lap dancing club" and he lies/goes anyway that is disrespecting you as his partner, no matter whether it's watching a woman strip off, grinding against you or giving you a handjob.

FWIW, And i'm only mentioning this as it appears i was unclear - I would be as annoyed about the grinding etc as i would a handjob. It is sexual contact. I only bought it up to point out the difference between a strip club and a lap dancing club. There are many differences between different establishments.

I wasn't trying to convince anyone else it's ok. I was commenting on the 'interrogation' part as i feel that is controlling and wrong. I do have a problem with misconceptions about the women that work there though.

Personally a strip club i would have no problem with. I have been to more strip clubs than my other half has.

Jeez, the comparison of going to a LCD occasionally and having a non Fair trade coffee occasionally is grim...

Also, In the iindustries i've worked in that involve men on nights out - The ones that hit on girls like this are always snogging some randoms face off by the end of the night. So i really don't understand a lot of the flack strippers and lap dancers get. They're usually the last girls you need to be worrying about.

The blokes who have no interest in one usually have no interest in the other and sit in the corner like a frightened puppy.

Oh no. It isn't the strippers we are giving stick to. It's the men that are paying for it.

Dizzy zebra-so you would be delighted for your daughter to decide that stripping was the career for her? I notice ou dodged that question,,,,,

Thank you, Ithinkofhappy- you're the first one to address the questions I asked- it does sound as if you need to think/ question a bit more....

Seeker - Not particularly. I don't think i ever said that and i don't think it's relevant. There are a few careers i hope she doesn't choose, for a variety of reasons. I hope she doesn't want to work with horses either, or dogs.

I would be far more disappointed if my son were to pay for it though, Than if my daughter were to choose to provide it.

well if ya'll so ok about your daughters being strippers, lap dancers or topless waitresses then fine. if not then you are hypocrits, fine.

this thread is depressing but at least ya'll are so cool. think about the culture that makes this all fine.

Is that because the horses or dogs will sexually exploit her and chip away at her self worth, all in the name of sexual gratification of men?

Thought not...

What's hypocritical about it?
I wouldn't be thrilled about my daughter doing it because it's a dead end career. You're not going to get much out of it in the long run. The same as many other careers people choose to do. Not because i see anything wrong with taking your clothes off for a living.

I have worked with horses, i've owned them, i've taught riding. I hope she doesn't do those things either because for the majority, You're just cleaning shit and helping other people succeed for the most of it.

Marmalade - That's a pretty big generalisation there. Do you know for a fact every single woman feels that way?

I don't get why you think it's fine for you to go to a lap dancing club but you'd be disappointed if your son went to one. Or if your daughter worked in one.

That to me shows that you're not actually fine with it, that you don't see stripping as any sort of respectable career.

And that's my problem with it. People simultaneously consume it while disrespecting the women that do it.

Fucking grim.

Mechanical - I didn't say if he went to one. I said if he paid for it.

"Seeker - Not particularly. I don't think i ever said that and i don't think it's relevant. There are a few careers i hope she doesn't choose, for a variety of reasons. I hope she doesn't want to work with horses either, or dogs."

Of course it's relevant. If it's a perfectly OK career choice for someone else's daughter, why not for yours?

No I'm sure they don't. I'm sure they're just thinking of the reddies getting stuffed into their thongs and how they're going to pay off their university fees off by the end of the week....

a woman may provide a service of stripping/lap dancing but it is not her decision who pays for it, that is taken out of her hands unless she decides to only strip/dance for a select few so really where is the power

I would be very very disappointed if ds paid for a lap dance but for a dd of mine (do not have one) To become a stripper i would be devastated not many woman walk away from the sex industry confident and happy with themselves far too many walk away with serious problems drug abuse, self loathing, mistrust of people it damages so many women

What's the difference? He pays for it, someone else pays for it, it's no odds.