to think that the further you are from the world of work, the crazier being a working mum sounds?

[StripeyBear]

I did it for 3 years - motherhood and a (part-time, but) demanding job... when you were always running from pillar to post, and buying take-away pizza, and feeling guilty because your child was crying when you left, and always being tired and hassled and answering your blackberry on your days "off" and being f**ked off because your job wasn't half as interesting as the work you used to get when you were childless and in the office full-time-plus....

Almost 2 years of being a SAHM later, my working-mother-friends come round for coffee on their day off and moan about all of the above.. It sounds familiar, but now even their moaning exhausts me. I'm more in a swapping recipes for lemon-drizzle-cake and making my own pizza dough sort of head space. These days I just potter around - my whole life has slowed down.....

Don't get me wrong - I realise I'm fortunate that we can manage without the wage (and not everyone can), but I find I am barely worse off (once the childcare is taken into account, and it is so much easier to spend money wisely, now that I don't have to buy crappy pizza because I am too exhausted to cook or book my holiday at the last minute because I wasn't organised earlier). And life feels so much better now that I'm not always exhausted... and I actually have time to do interesting stuff like read (grown-up) books... and there is no stress around childcare and the like....

So when my friends come round and moan about their blackberries ringing and being side-lined for promotions and feeling stressed about organising a child's birthday party when they have no time to really do it and so on.... instead of feeling oodles of sympathy... all I can think is... WHY? WHY? Why are you doing it then?

AIBU? I sort of suspect I might be

Oh gosh - Janey68 I didn't really think I'd been that smug... I dashed out an OP where I very clearly said "Don't get me wrong - I realise I'm fortunate that we can manage without the wage (and not everyone can)" and people took the ache - but then it is a very, very sensitive topic.

Rain I'm an older mum in my 40s too. Give your DH a kick up the butt from me... if you're pg, you're making a bloody baby - how much work is that? I think you need to think about what you need? If you need every penny you earn fair enough... but when I really thought about it - we didn't.... just sayin'

Spero I think that's probably a bit too prescriptive a list! I think you have to accept that some women feel so strongly about raising their children themselves that they are prepared to take the risk and make themselves more vulnerable career and finances wise. Money isn't everything, y'know I think the important thing is understanding the choice you have made - I suppose it would also be nice if we could all cut each other a bit of slack and respect each other's choices...

Anyway, interesting discussion....

Stripey - I'm sorry if I offend but I found your Op and the first follow up exceedingly smug too.

"An interesting discussion"
No a shit stirring thread that has upset several posters and offered little constructive.
Nice.

Are you a politician stripey?

Money isnt everything,y'know

You cant see that it IS MONEY that has given you the choice ?

i can't see how people do.
do everything at once.
i'd rather do one thing really well

I think it's more important to understand the concept of 'choice' and recognise that no choice is made in a vacuum. It might look like a 'choice' to have children and stay at home to look after them, but if it's only 50% of the population who can physically carry a child and give birth to it and that same group has structurally less power and earns less money, it somewhat reduces the 'choices' you can make, doesn't it?

Choice is always a political issue and on this subject, a sexually political one at that.

"Money isn't everything you know" try telling that to someone who can't afford to heat their home or feed their children Stripey.

It sounds like you just weren't cut out for it. I work full time, not cos we need the money, but because I want to. Dd never cries at drop off, we spend afternoons playing,I bake, I earn, I do not complain. Think I would be bored out of my skull in your shoes! But then that is the beauty of choice...

stripey, sadly we could not live on dp's earnings. Nowhere near. he doesn't earn minimum wage, really, as self employed person.

Uinfortunately too, I can't scale down work I do. I am either employed, or unemployed. There is no part time.

So when we are both working flat out and earning, then actually, we could get by with less money, tbh. However - I cannot adjust my job to make that happen.

That is something else to bear in mind about working mums (parents) - of course it is worth exploiting any flexibility in our work circumstances, but it isn't always there for the taking. I would love to work fewer hours - but then I would stop working all together.

i could look at a complete change of career - it would mean considering work that is lower status and less well paid,as well as bearing the costs of retraining. I also have, as someone who works at home, some flexibility that a job working away from home wouldn't give me.

As badinage says - no choice is made in a vacuum. The majority of successful people in my profession are men who are either childless or who have wives who work less than they do and do the majority of parenting. I want neither to be one of those wives - nor a 'proto' man in the other role.

Chubfuddler >Oh dear. Working parents are raising their children themselves too you know op.

It is not the same as being a SAHP though - if you're away from them for 40 or 50 hours a week, you largely have to delegate raising them to someone else. OK, you might get to choose some broad limits on how they are raised, for example, choosing a nursery out of a choice of 2 or 3, but whilst you are not there someone else will be making decisions on a minute by minute basis about how to raise your child. It is really not the same as doing it yourself.

The trouble with this whole debate IMO is that women's "choices" are mainly still dictated by the earning power of their spouse. There are plenty of men who would like to slow down for a few years too, particularly if it were even more socially acceptable, but that is rarely a choice for them. At the heart of the issue is the fact that men still on average earn more for the same work, and that many women fall or are pushed into lower paying careers.

Biology is a minor part of it by my reckoning, as demonstrated by the legions of women who are desperate to get back in work even when they have a "choice."

Rain I sympathise. I was in a similar position in that the work I did requires huge flexibility and possibly long hours. To get the most interesting work, you basically needed to be available from the crack of dawn till 6.30-ish and possible evenings and weekends. You wouldn't necessarily work all that time, but you needed to be able to do it a the drop of a hat, and prior to kids I would routine be in hte office 10 hours a day.

Before I had a child, I always imagined that work would be ok-ish because we live by a nursery that runs 7am to 6pm and I assumed that DH and I could swap about... when it came to it, and I actually had a child, I just didn't want to be away from her for 50 plus hours a week. That meant accepting much less challenging roles, with fewer opportunities for promotion.

I'm sorry that you have no flexiblity to reduce your work commitments - it is exhausting, and it does feel endless - though this stage too will pass.

It is really not the same as doing it yourself.

Why does someone else doing the childcare equate to 'worse' though, whether that's a child's male parent or a trained and qualified child professional?

It might not be the same.

It might be a darned sight better though, from the child's point of view especially.

Erm - parents decide the values they want their children to grow up with ,the food they eat,the clothes they wear,their routine etc whether they are WOHP or SAHP.
You are confusing childcare with child raising .

that was to Stripey

I work (and always have save 2 lots of Maternity leave) because as Spero says:

1. I like it, it gives me an identity away from x's mum or y's wife
2. I like earning my own money to spend how I choose.
3. I like staying with DH out of choice not nenecessity.
4. I would hate DH to have to shoulder the full financial responsibility of the household
5. I am good at it
6. I think it is good for the dcs that we both work and both parent. (And now they are old enough they say this is what they like best too)

Yes I plead guilty to some of the behavior you described in your OP. But for me the solution would be to work f/t not give up work.

And TUPE.

Or TUBE or whatever it was was the acronym for The Usual Bunfight Ensues.

Stripey bear - Lots of people share the childcare so they are always with 1 parent,or work jobs that mean their children are with them

Stripey - how did your husband cope then being away from his child when he was at work? How does he cope now?

Why was there a difference between you if there was one?

This is our situation chesty.

Stripey, will you home educate? Cos otherwise you know...someone else will be raising your children .