to ttc if I think I will abort if the HG sets in again?

[ICBINEG]

So DH and I have conceived immediately on two occasions, one early miscarriage and one birth. I had hideous soul destroying sickness almost all of the way through pregnancy. We are beginning to start thinking about having another child, but I feel almost certain I couldn't go through another pregnancy like the last one. My understanding of HG is that it is unlikely to strike twice (although you are slightly more likely to get it if you had it before) and that each pregnancy may be fine or not.

So is it unreasonable to ttc if I think I might abort due to HG?

If we conceive and then I get horribly sick is it unreasonable to abort and try again?

Given we would only ever have one more child and seem to be able to conceive at will this might be more a case of choosing to bring to term the baby that doesn't make me horrendously sick for 9 months rather than wasting life etc.

I'm not sure I can really buy into that argument though....

(ps. if you are of the never abort under any circumstances camp then please don't bother posting...I know that opinion exists and am not in the slightest bit swayed by it. I am interested in hearing from other with grey zone opinions on abortion as to which side of their personal line this falls).

I am not sure there are adustments I could make to get though HG again. Work were brilliant, my DH was brilliant, I had sympathetic GP's that gave me everything going. But by the end of the pregnancy I was out of my mind, had lost all self-confidence and wasn't madly interested in the baby once it was born. I had PND which is still recurrent almost 2 years later, and I am still doing shit at work because I can't get back in the swing of things.

So maybe the answer is to never ttc again.

Presumably the pro-life lot would prefer that I never gave a second child of mine a chance at life rather than ttc and present said child with at least the opportunity to thrive even though it isn't 100% guaranteed that I would not feel the need to abort.

ICBINEG - Have you read all of your thread?

Why are you still insisting that you have a low probability of HG in future pregnancies?

In my first pregnancy I didn't feel like I had a baby inside until the 50% survival point. Up until then I was growing a collection of cells that had the potential to become a baby

... and? Not everyone feels the same, but more importantly in a second pregnancy you might not feel the same.

I still think it comes back to the probabilities A little perhaphs - which is why you should take the time to do some research on what they are because you seem to have been badly advised about them!

There are people on this thread saying it is immoral to become pregnant unless you know you can make it through the pregnancy No, there aren't. People are saying it's immoral to become pregnant if you are already considering abortion because you feel ill and went into it knowing that was a distinct possibility.

Well in that case every woman is immoral. There are plenty of conditions that require termination and anyone could suffer from them - the difference is require.

If I have a low probability of HG in the future then why is that a worse chance to take than any of the other possible reasons? Why on earth do you think you have a low chance? You don't.

vic part of me agrees with everything you say. But if you have a baby over the age of 40 and would terminate for downs you are doing exactly the same thing - no it's not the same thing, not at all. HG lasts a few months for you, downs syndrome is a condition that the baby/child/adult will live with all their life and will impact on you for the rest of your life, not a few months. Comparing two is ridiculous.

Thanks to the many on the thread pointing out the problem of wondering if you had waited a few more days would the symptoms have gone. I think this is very true. On the other hand if I felt I could conceive again almost immediately....well it is a case of choosing which of the many children I could have actually gets a chance

That is VILE.

see i think the PND puts a different spin on things icb - really consider talking to your gp and even counselling - yeah i know - but it works.

you sound like the whole first pg was so traumatic - but maybe its not just about the HG....maybe its about those other things that came after on top of the HG.

tiddly yes it may be morally dodgey ground...even more so because in this case the baby would likely be healthy.

ttc while over 40 in the full knowledge you would abort a baby with downs syndrome, as well as ttc when you would abort a child carrying any other sort of genetic disorder is something that certainly is done.

If you want one child, why do you have to restrict yourself to the first random product of conception you make rather than the first one that doesn't have a genetic abnormality or the first one that doesn't make you lose your mind before it is even born?

I really don't have a problem with you doing this from a moral perspective.

However I don't think that I would find it a practical solution. If it took you 3 pregnancies, each with 6 weeks do sickness to make the decision to abort you are already upto 18 weeks of sickness, which begins to make it feel like you might as well have continued with the first one or given up after the second. So knowing when to draw the line might be difficult.

You might also feel less "collection of cells" about subsequent pregnancies having experienced having a baby. I wasn't very attached to DD until she arrived as I had no idea what having a baby would be like, but I am not convinced that I would feel that way again.

If you havent done so already, I would look for specialist counselling (perhaps a post/peri natal counsellor) and also book a private consultation with a consultant with a special interest in HG i.e.not just a random consultant at your local hospital. I would look for one who has written papers on HG.

This is about much more than however many months of sickness, if you are still suffering from depression I would say that is the bigger issue surely? Fearing and panicing about the sickness is adding to the suffering of the sickness itself.

Carrie37 I was interested to see you were prescribed prednisolone for sickness, I had bad sickness in first pg, and then in final pg was on prednisolone (for recurrent mcs) and had no sickness at all until I was weaned off it. Might be worth trying for OP.

All I can think of is the terrible emotional toll an abortion could take on you if it was a wanted pregnancy and the baby was healthy.

It's extremely rare I imagine to terminate a wanted, healthy child - indeed I've never met anyone who has done so. The pregnancy is either unwanted or there's something gravely wrong.

I'm pro choice (obviously) and abortion is often difficult even if pregnancy is unwanted - women console themselves with knowing they did the best thing for them either because they'd have raised it alone, or it was a contraception mistake or whatever.

Same with the foetus having problems - we can console ourselves with the knowledge that a child doesn't have to be born if it had a serious condition or one incompatible with life.

But how will you rationalise this or come to terms with it ? (Genuine question)

I can really see where you're coming from but there are so many issues to think through - like will I get pregnant again? What if I abort and then have to cope with the fact the pregnancy may have become bearable? What about dh's relationship with the pregnancy?

There is so much guilt around abortion in ordinary circumstances - this is an extra ordinary circumstance and I really would worry for you if you didn't get some very strong support while you work through these issues.

Lots of luck

YANBU. Do what's right for you.

But how will you rationalise this or come to terms with it ? (Genuine question)

Are you serious? (genuine question)

"Do what's right for you"
A number of posters I've read who think the OP should not go ahead with this plan are clearly doing so from the POV that it would not be good for the OP physically or mentally.

A number of posters I've read who think the OP should not go ahead with this plan are clearly doing so from the POV that it would not be good for the OP physically or mentally.

None of the posters on this thread can know how the OP will feel if she terminates a pregnancy. They also don't know how she personally would experience a second bout of HG. I don't think I understand what your point is.

My point is that I thought you were meaning she should do what she stated in OP (and ignore nae-sayers on this thread). From reading more posts from OP I don't think she is ready to say she definitely wants to try this approach, or that as a couple they have thought through the implications for them.

I had Pre eclampsia with dd1 (9) & I went on to have a second, knowing that I risked it again. It would not have even occurred to me to abort if symptoms started to show with preg #2, because it was a baby that I wanted & loved as soon as I conceived. Thankfully I didn't suffer any problems, but I did live with the fear for 9 mths & didn't enjoy the pregnancy at all.

Because of this I do see where you are coming from wrt not wanting to go through a pregnancy that would make you sick all the time. I think it is very cold to plan to get pregnant & then abort if you can't deal with the symptoms. I walked into preg #2 with my eyes wide open, prepared to take whatever I needed to to have my baby. If I wasn't prepared to do that, I would not have TTC'd.

And I come at this from the camp that shouts pro choice. And in fact, I did terminate a pregnancy (#3 for us - not planned, nor wanted), I am not going into the details, but I am firmly on the side that it is your body your choice. But I feel this kind of premeditation over a baby is just too cold! I mean, how many times will you terminate if you keep getting sick?

i really hope this is a wind up.

If you want one child, why do you have to restrict yourself to the first random product of conception you make rather than the first one that doesn't have a genetic abnormality or the first one that doesn't make you lose your mind before it is even born?
Because we are not in the realm of designer babies yet OP, the first random product of conception is what we all get, and then have to hope for the best. It's not really a 'try before you buy' process.

I am absolutely pro choice, and if you feel you can attempt another pregnancy and possibly HG, but then find it is absolutely unbearable, I'm sure a lot of us would support you in a decision to terminate.
What I find difficult to understand from your posts is the impression I get that you would terminate at the first sign of HG, in the hope that subsequent pgs might not incur HG. It seems hasty and impractical.
As a pp said, after several pgs with HG over who knows how many years, you may find you've experienced the same amount of illness as you would have in one full term pregnancy.

All I can find is things saying it is more likely to have it in a pregnancy if you have had it before...not by how much

Probably because there are no statistics yet, or no definite answer. Like with PE, there is a lot of out that says no risk after first, that you can't have it if you didn't have it with #1 if father is the same, the there is a risk if you already had it etc. They simply don't know, because they don't know what causes it.

My friend had PE with her 4th (same father as other 3) so bad, she started fitting (eclampsia) & they almost lost her. There is lots of unknowns.

i think the issue here is not the consequence of a second pg but more one of getting PND under control before you even start to think about having another.

i think you underestimate the effect that termination can have. it can be as devastating as HC if its not really what you want.

you must go and talk to your gp icb.

this is more to do with how you are feeling, and how you are feeling is very much affected by PND.

people are glossing over this issue but for me the real issue is your feelings, and how PND affects those.
you might not even realise it.

You need to sort out the issue you have now instead of worrying about an issue that might happen - sort one and the other will sort itself i think.

BTW, to the posters saying this is a vile thread/wind up etc;

This is a massive issue for the OP and I would imagine very difficult to think about on her own - surely this is the best place for her to ask the question, see others responses, and understand her reaction to them and therefore help her come to the right decision for her family?

I know I would find the prospect of a 2nd pg with a severe condition like HG a massive headfuck and would need help rationalising it before discussing it out loud in RL. Add into that long term PND.

Give her a break eh?

This is terrifying. :(

Op I'll hide the thread now, but I really hope you seek a professional opinion. Good luck.

On the other hand if I felt I could conceive again almost immediately....well it is a case of choosing which of the many children I could have actually gets a chance

it's a child , not a bloody handbag! you can't decide it doesn't suit you, so get rid & get a new one.

as i said earlier, op , please seek out some form of counselling before you ttc, the more you post, the more unwell you sound- and i don't mean that nastily.
i really don't think you're thinking rationally here.

Honestly, from what you have posted here. In your position I would call it even and stick with the one child.

I would have liked a houseful, but it wasn't to be - so never mind, there are other things in life.

I am pro choice & if you had an about on because of hyperemesis then that's up to you. However, personally I think I would accept that I would be a one child family & wouldn't keep trying after that. Or look at adoption.

Like others have said, what happens if you terminate then don't fall pregnant again immediately? What happens if the foetus that didn't make you ill had terrible chromosomal abnormalities? I think there is way too much potential for an unhappy outcome here. But it's your choice at the end of the day.

I was about to post in your defence op until I read the last paragraph of your last post.

That attitude is foul. Really nasty.

If the OP had come on here and said she was desperate for another child but didn't know whether she could cope with HG again, and hence was struggling to decide whether to TTC, she would have had nothing but support.

If she had come on here, already pregnant, saying that she had conceived in the knowledge that she might suffer from HG again, but had honestly thought she could cope, but in fact couldn't, she would have had nothing but support from the vast majority.

Even up until her most recent burst of posts, I was sympathetic to her dilemma. But those last posts do display an abhorrent attitude to "the products of her conception".

OP, I truly think your mind isn't right on this subject. It's not your fault; I strongly suspect you're traumatised and possibly still depressed. Nevertheless, please, please access counselling before you even contemplate TTC.