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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that Chris Huhne's son was very wrong to call him 'autistic'

357 replies

Sallyingforth · 04/02/2013 17:03

He is may be an unpleasant creature but that word should never be used as an insult.
order-order.com/2013/02/04/peter-huhnes-texts-to-lying-father/

OP posts:
DameMargotFountain · 04/02/2013 20:02

'write to a newspaper'

why?

we're having the discussion here

Spero · 04/02/2013 20:05

Because you say you are sick and tired of what people wrongly think. Why not get the message out? Sorry, I can't think of anything more productive. But if the problem is that people don't know then TELL them.

AmberLeaf · 04/02/2013 20:08

So its back to the 'you must educate the ignorant' lines?

No, if you are ignorant, educate yourself

Ignorance is not an acceptable defence.

Talking about such things here on MN is as far as I can go to educate, even that gets accusations of being professionally offended etc.

Badvoc · 04/02/2013 20:12

I also don't believe that me meant to be cruel to those who suffer from autism.
However, it is still amazingly crass and ignorant thing to say/text.
He is obv a young man who is very very angry and going through a very traumatic time...he thought his own father would happily send his mother to prison for something she didn't do.
I can't imagine what that must feel like.
I would also imagine that he has suffered from the publicity this case has had.
Doesn't make it ok, but I do feel pity for anyone in that much pain.
I agree with kung fu...it's just so very sad that this is even considered an insult :(

CommunistLegoBloc · 04/02/2013 20:12

Spero, that's a little along the lines of telling women where they can and can't go and what they can and can't wear in order to avoid getting raped. They don't need to be educated, would-be rapists do.

It's not up to us to educate you about autism. Do you not think parents, carers, teachers, respite workers, foster parents, brothers, sisters etc have enough on their plates without explaining the intricacies of a condition to you because you can't be bothered to find out for yourself in order to make the world a more inclusive place?

Pagwatch · 04/02/2013 20:12

I think people are allowed to post about stuff that annoys or upsets them on here without being told that they must go and campaign.
That's a bit odd really.

sc13 · 04/02/2013 20:20

I don't want to crucify the person who sent those texts, and he clearly was in a very bad place when he sent them. BUT I honestly don't see how the use of the term 'autistic' in that sentence can be seen as anything other than a disablist insult.

IdiotishPrattle · 04/02/2013 20:28

Life can be hard enough for parents of autistic children, just getting them access to an education and adequate healthcare without having to educate the ignorant, because they can't really be bothered to understand other people. My Dd is autistic I don't see it as a miserable existence, I love her for who she is.
No disability terminology should be used as an insult, as others have said its totally unacceptable.
He used the word as an insult, showing himself to not only be offensive but also incredibly ignorant about ASD.

angeltulips · 04/02/2013 20:39

Goodness me. All these posters misery-gutsing over this on the basis that "I can't believe he reached for the worst insult he could find and it was about autism". Get a grip.

He very clearly wanted to make a point about his father not responding to social clues - he may have not used the most nuanced of words to explain himself, but in the context of all the effing in the other texts it was perfectly clear that he was not throwing around "disabilist insults". I imagine if theyd be speaking rather than texting he might have said "are you deaf?"

By all means campaign for greater understanding of autism (I do, my first cousin is severely autistic - before you all flame me) but really all this belly-aching and precious huffing is way ott

DameMargotFountain · 04/02/2013 20:44

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CommunistLegoBloc · 04/02/2013 20:45

If you truly believe that, after reading this thread properly angel, then I despair.

HecateWhoopass · 04/02/2013 20:48

No.
You cannot decide that because you don't care, anyone who does is wrong, precious or huffing. It is not your place to dismiss someone else's feelings.
Even those of us who disagree with what that lad said have not attempted to dismiss or belittle his feelings in the way you now attempt to belittle and dismiss ours.
It is not for you to decide how we feel about a comment that is made.
I have a grip.
What matters to me is important and neither you nor anyone else who tells people who feel like this that they have no right to, will be listened to. Certainly not by me.

desertgirl · 04/02/2013 20:49

I don't suppose Peter Huhne knows he doesn't know what autism is, and can't imagine he's about to google. He probably has the widespread vague general belief that autistic people lack empathy (and the link to the triad of impairments doesn't really help if you simply look at that; it does include 'difficulties with empathy'; if you think you know what those difficulties are, you aren't being told otherwise.

I have learned a lot about autism through MN, and as a result of some of what I have read on here, have looked into it further, . Every time it comes up though there is the same cry of 'it's not up to us to educate' - well, no, it isn't, but in reality, people are not going to go off and look up something without a trigger. I looked up Joubert syndrome because of a friend's little boy who has it; it wouldn't have occurred to me to go round researching syndromes otherwise. I wanted to understand better what they were facing; not to bug the family with uneducated questions, to try to understand what they were talking about when they described what X or Y piece of equipment was for.

Without knowingly having anyone with autism in my real life circle, I had no reason to think that my original understanding was as flawed as it was. However MN has stood in for that circle and various posters have led me to want to understand better, to try not to bug them with uneducated questions, and to try to figure out what they were talking about in their posts about family life.

I don't know if that does any good, overall; the only time I can think of it having affected anything was when a friend was having a moan about the behaviour of a child in her circle - "they just say he's autistic, but that's no reason for [whatever it was]" and I, hopefully gently, challenged the latter part of the sentence. Couldn't have done that without you, MN - would have probably just agreed with her. Yes in the ideal world I wouldn't have needed you to share your experiences on here, but I did, and thankfully for me, you did.

I don't know what I'm rambling on about, really, other than to say that the 'it isn't up to us to educate you' makes me slightly sad. I wouldn't want it to be an obligation, I know you have enough on your plates, but if you don't share your realities, there will be fewer people whose curiosity is triggered enough to look further. And when someone says 'lacking in empathy', referring to 'Dr Google' wouldn't make me look further - they aren't saying it to be insulting, or because they are stupid, they are saying it because that is what they have learned. I would feel crass jumping in, here, and saying 'well that's not actually it, blah blah' because I don't know quarter as much about it as those of you who live or work with autism.

Don't know what the answer is. But thanks to those who have been part of my education.

TaggieCampbellBlack · 04/02/2013 20:49

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DameMargotFountain · 04/02/2013 20:53

and i already addressed my use of that phrase desert, i admitted it wasn't helpful, so thanks for being equally as unhelpful by way of reinforcing it

difficultpickle · 04/02/2013 20:54

I wonder how many of those on this thread have 18 yr olds whose lives have been torn apart and whom have reacted in very measured reasonable tones? I have huge sympathy for Peter Huhne.

HecateWhoopass · 04/02/2013 20:56

So do I.
You can have sympathy for someone and at the same time feel very strongly about their choice of words.

Badvoc · 04/02/2013 20:57

I think most people on this thread do too, bisjo.
We just also think its pretty fucking diabolical that in the 21st century "autistic" is still seen as an insult.

limitedperiodonly · 04/02/2013 20:58

I have to say I don't think angeltulip's post was bad.

Peter Huhne was in pain. He said what he thought. He made a mistake. Can you not understand that?

If you can't then I think you are just as insensitive.

QueenofPlaids · 04/02/2013 20:59

It's a poor choice of words & unacceptable, but...he's an angry kid. If he's 18, was he 16 when he said it? I said a lot of things at 16 I'm sure I wouldn't desperately want to be reminded of now.

I do think it was a crack-handed way of referring to a perceived lack of feeling / understanding (so the kid doesn't understand autism) rather than equating autism with being shit.

Excusable? No, not fully because it still perpetuates the use of disabling terms as insults (but I think a little withholding of judgement appropriate in the circumstance). Teens say all sort of things that most thoughtful adults would not find acceptable (see current trend for girls slut-shaming other girls for example), but most learn in private and don't get it spread all over the national press.

AmberLeaf · 04/02/2013 21:00

But in saying what you just said desertgirl you are making it an obligation.

desertgirl · 04/02/2013 21:01

Sorry Dame Margot, the post wasn't meant to be about that specific phrase, it was just the example that came to mind. I appreciate that you had withdrawn it

AmberLeaf · 04/02/2013 21:02

Being upset and angry while understandable is no excuse.

Would it be an acceptable excuse if he'd called someone a nigger?

HecateWhoopass · 04/02/2013 21:04

I don't think hemade a mistake. Unless his phone autocorrected to autism, then he intentionally typed it in.
He used it ignorantly, not in error.
I understand that he's a kid in great pain. His dads a total arse who was happy to screw his mum over. I'd want to string him up by the balls.
I feel great sympathy for him.
But that doesn't change my view on the use of disablist language. I'm never going to say its never acceptable unless of course you're REALLY upset.

desertgirl · 04/02/2013 21:05

AmberLeaf, it wasn't my intention. I don't know what the answer is. What I meant was that although it shouldn't be an obligation, it is very very helpful - because I thought it may sometimes feel as though you are talking to a brick wall, or saying the same things over and over, wanted you to know that it does make a difference. Of course you can say it isn't up to you to educate; but it can't really be an obligation of other people to realise they misunderstand something without that being pointed out.

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