Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that DM has gone too far this time.

92 replies

ModreB · 02/02/2013 21:25

My DM has issues. She lacks responsibility, common sense, is selfish, only thinks of herself.

Yesterday I spent the morning with her, at a Police Station, while she was questioned under caution after being accused of taking advantage of another person, who was her friend, at the complex she lives at. The other person is now sadly deceased.

Can I say now that I believe that she is completely innocent, she might be a silly stupid old bat, but she is honest.

She had been going to the cashpoint for this other person, drawing out money using their PIN and card, then giving the money to them. The family, who visited this person twice in 12 months have made the complaint.

What I cannot forgive is that she confessed that she has also been giving DS3, who is 13 yo that cashcard and PIN to get the cash when she couldn't be bothered to go the cashpoint for her friend. He may now also need to be interviewed by the police about it. Angry

How dare she. How FUCKING dare she implicate my DS in her FUCKING stupidity. I am so cross. How FUCKING dare she.

OP posts:
Original poster
ModreB · 02/02/2013 23:18

The accusation is that there is more than £2500 apparently missing. So, we are not talking a few quid.

I am just so cross that she involved DS.

OP posts:
edam · 02/02/2013 23:31

eek, £2.5k?! Not surprised you are furious at your ds being dragged into that. I hope very much a. she spent it herself and b. the police accept that she spent it herself.

OutragedFromLeeds · 02/02/2013 23:36

I hope she gave it to the neighbour!

I understand that you're cross at how things have turned out, but I don't think that your mum could have foreseen how things would develop. It's a shame that you can't just do a favour for a neighbour or ask your grandson to do a favour without being accused of theft. If she's innocent I feel really sorry for your mum tbh.

If she's guilty then it's a whole different thing.

cozietoesie · 02/02/2013 23:38

The trouble is that older people often like cash money around the place. (I know when my gran died, she had £3k in cash in a biscuit tin in her sideboard - for my mum, uncle and auntie. Scraped together from years of pension payments I imagine.)

And all sorts of things can happen to a few thousand quid in cash.

Speak to a lawyer.

TheFallenNinja · 03/02/2013 07:56

Well if it was cash machine withdrawals it will be limited to a daily amount (I think £250) in which case unless there are 10 daily withdrawals of £250 one after the other or anything that was taken after he died then it is a fishing expedition, I suspect it's a lot of withdrawals over a short period of time.

HollyBerryBush · 03/02/2013 08:02

I assume there were no withdrawals after death? That would put DM on shakey ground.

TBH, DM has told the police the truth, it's all a bit of a non event.

CaptainSweatPants · 03/02/2013 08:16

Well from the family's point of view 2.5k isn't a non event

BeckAndCall · 03/02/2013 08:17

I too can't understand the problem.

It's perfectly normal in our family for someone to use my MIL's card and my aunts card to get cash out - they can't get there.

13 might be too young for us, but in principle, if its close by and done immediately - not just while he's out sometime- I really don't see the problem - he's helping out! Same as going to get some bread and a newspaper!

And you can only withdraw a certain amount per day so £2500 must have taken sometime to collect- the bank statement will show the pattern, and whether its suspicious - and your DM should be able to remember if it was once a week, once a Fortnight of whatever. There must be a perfectly clear audit trail of transactions which will quickly make this a non story for the police.

And I too bet that any cash is in a box in the wardrobe ( or wherever other people's older relatives keep theirs!)

cozietoesie · 03/02/2013 08:48

They have over £2.5k seemingly missing over and above what were likely to be her living expenses and they've looked at CCTV (inconclusively according to the OP) so they presumably have details of at least some transactions, dates etc. I think it probably is a fishing expedition though, Ninja. They shouldn't do it, but they sometimes do if they smell a 'result'.

And it's not entirely a non-problem for the lad. What happens if the police turn up at his school asking to interview him? Schools can be extraordinarily complaisant with the police at times - just let proper procedures fly out of the window when kind Sergeant McGlufferty (who helped you with the parking situation or that 'nasty drunk man') turns up with cap in hand.

That's why I think the recommendations to seek legal advice were right.

TheLightPassenger · 03/02/2013 09:09

I agree with Edam. I understand why you are furious that she has put your DS in a position where he could be accused of theft. Did DM even ask her friend's permission for DS to be given the PIN number, one wonders.

StinkyWicket · 03/02/2013 09:18

I get it OP and YANBU.

The issue is that banks will hold their customer's liable for any spend should they divulge their PIN to anyone. CCTV on the cameras can only go so far - a person can withdraw the max and spend half of it, that won't be on the camera at all.

MIL was completely in the wrong.

Also, if no one noticed the OP said this had been going on for at least 12 months. One withdrawal of £250 every month is not going to trip any fraud markers, especially if (as it would seem) the customer seems to prefer dealing with cash.

Eeeknumber3 · 03/02/2013 09:23

I would be furious! You are quite right to be so insensed! It's one thing doing it herself, but involving a child...she might be batty, but she's bang out of order. I doubt the police will pursue it, unless their hand is forced by the family who have complained...

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 03/02/2013 09:26

I also get why you are angry! I doubt your mum predicted this but it's an awful worry for you all

hackmum · 03/02/2013 09:36

Oh blimey. I think YANBU. Of course your mum was doing an innocent favour for the neighbour, and that's fine. You have to be so so careful with cashpoint cards and PINs, though. She shouldn't have asked your DS to get the money for her - the neighbour was trusting her to get the money, not your DS. So however trustworthy your DS, anything could have gone wrong - he could have been mugged for a start, and then what would have happened?

I just hope it can all be sorted out by careful examination of all the bank statements showing the sums of money taken out and the dates they were taken. To be honest, even if there are sums of money unaccounted for, I think it would be very hard to make a prosecution case, as, once your DM gave the money to the neighbour, who's to say what she did with it? There are usually no records of cash transactions.

JenaiMorris · 03/02/2013 10:12

£2.5k over a year isn't much, is it? I'm surprised the police are even bothered tbh. I bet it actually worked out at £50 a week, a perfectly reasonable sum of spending money for the deceased friend to have requested.

Daft of your mum to ask a 13yo to do it though, simply because sadly, people do like to point the finger at teenage boys.

cory · 03/02/2013 11:19

I don't think it is at all relevant what we might trust our own teens with in our own family.

The point is that if you handle money for a vulnerable person who is not family, you are putting yourself in a position of risk. The grandmother did not have a right to pass that risk onto someone who would be more vulnerable than her for two reasons:

a) he is a teen

b) (more to the point) he had not been entrusted with the card by the person who owned it

As for the posters saying, of course a trustworthy teen would never have passed on the card and pin to another trustworthy person- well, he'd just seen his gran do that, hadn't he? if that doesn't make her less trustworthy, why should he not do it?

nickelbabe · 03/02/2013 14:47

i'd want to know where the 2.5k figure came from.
dpending on how long she'd been helping her friend., that could easily be stuff that was bought that the family haven't thgiught of.
maybe there were trips out, special meals, birthday /christmas pressies, extra toiletries, new clothes, knickers+ tights,toiletries.
dh's mum has a "spending money" account at the home where she lives and it is used for pedicures and haircuts too. all things you might not think of to add up, but she gets through a lot of "spending money"

AThingInYourLife · 03/02/2013 15:14

The GM and her teenage grandson have regularly been withdrawing money from an elderly woman's bank account over the space of a year.

£2500 has gone missing.

The police are involved and there are allegations of theft and fraud.

And people don't see the issue? Confused

I would be furious with her, and none too pleased with my son either.

TheFallenNinja · 03/02/2013 15:22

I'm pretty sure that if the Police turn up at the school to interview the boy then that is what will happen. A school doesn't have any power to prevent or delay this.

A child has rights of course which are broadly in line with an adults.

I'm still a bit wooly what evidence has been given, there must be something tangible that the police have produced.

cozietoesie · 03/02/2013 15:44

Coming to the school has to be 'unavoidable' though Ninja.

I would also assume that the police have something tangible - or tangible enough to start this course of action they're on. I'm afraid that if I was the OP, I'd be seeking legal advice and keeping a very flexible mind about next week.

TheFallenNinja · 03/02/2013 16:52

Agree, they've got something. I would be surprised if they rocked up at the school also, but there really isn't a great deal that prevents that if its necessary.

I'd be asking the police if they intended to interview, arrange a time and get legal help. At least you then appear cooperative .

It's a truck load of trouble though. Hmm is be extremely angry with OP's mum but the priority here has to be protect the boys legal rights properly.

BeckAndCall · 03/02/2013 18:26

But £2500 hasn't gone missing! It's been given to the now deceased lady, as it was hers anyway, and the relatives just think that was a lot of money ( we presume).

It's most likely all of this will just be sorted out its a review of the bank statements and the cash recounts slips ( if she kept them) and someone giving an account of her likely spending over the year. £2500 is not a lot of money to get through if you pay everything in cash.

It's all a very woolly kind of accusation so far, and the police are most likely trying to just figure it out. It's unfortunate but I still really don't see that anyone has done anything wrong, even the OPs DM asking the grandson to go and get the cash.

thebody · 03/02/2013 18:38

Could go either way.. This all depends on the assumption that the dm is wolly and daft but not a liar and a thief.

Surprised your ds hadn't told you thought that he was doing this?

maddening · 03/02/2013 18:42

I think the police would not turn up at thw school - they would want the parent there being he is a minor - can your dm confirm the amounts that she requested your ds to withdraw and that she received them all - at least she can help eliminate any doubt with regards to your ds.

As how whether she can prove she handed the cash to the friend is another matter - assuming she did it's a horrible position to be in.

AThingInYourLife · 03/02/2013 19:21

"But £2500 hasn't gone missing! It's been given to the now deceased lady"

Has it?

We only have the word of a known liar for that.

If my grandmother was in a home and I found another resident got hold of her pin and was making regular withdrawals and I would be very unhappy and suspicious about what was going on.