sick of this country, what countries provide a better life for people that live there

[redbobblehat]

i'm sick of all these cuts backs, and lies from the goverment

so sick of it i'm actually thinking for the first time, i might perher to bugger off and live elsewhere

dh thinks dubai would be a good bet, but i think as a married woman, it's wouldnt be my first choice

so where would be a good bet

Really? I don't think either of us have the faintest idea do we?

I suspect the likelihood of feeling homesick is directly proportional to how sick and fed up a person is with the "home" country. I couldn't wait to leave, now the sun shines every day, I have a beautiful apartment and a tax free salary that means I can pay off my mortgage in a few years. I honestly think I would need to be lobotomised before I could contemplate living back in the UK in its current state.

I much prefer it when people talk about the good and bad points of living in country. To claim that somewhere is all good or all bad is silly.

I also feel a bit uneasy at those gloating about paying little tax where they live now, because they're usually living in a country where social inequality and poverty are rampant.

Basically I'm concerned that the OP is getting a lot of "It's great, move abroad" comments from a few, when in reality moving abroad can be frustrating, expensive, and demoralising.

It was easy enough for me, as I moved in my early 20s when I had no assets and to simply "give it a try," I didn't need to worry about visas, had no boyfriend or dependents, obviously spoke the language and had an English mother so was familiar with some customs but I still had times in the first couple of years when I was frustrated, confused, and missed my family. I can only imagine how much harder the whole thing is if you have assets, family, don't know anyone, need visas, or don't speak the local language.

My one comment mentioning possible negatives was instantly disagreed with, so I want to reinforce to the OP this is not a simple thing she is thinking of undertaking - and that she might surprise herself and miss her home country and the people in it

And ime, remaining in he UK can also be frustrating, expensive and demoralising.

The point is, we can all only speak from our own experience. There is no point trying to extrapolate your experience (or mine) to the OP because her view will be different from both of us. It's unsurprising that a topic such as this attracts comment from people who have made the leap, have no regrets, and want to encourage the OP to make the leap of faith it involves (because guess what? If you hate it, you can come back!)

And this is a forum on which disagreement is, you know, allowed.....

"uneasy at those gloating about paying little tax where they live now, because they're usually living in a country where social inequality and poverty are rampant"

Sounds like you are coming from a position of ignorance, and that should be making you uneasy more than anything imho.

You have maybe heard about Dubai and now you think all tax havens must be like that? You are wrong.

Haha! Yes, I'm squirming in my seat with shame Cote.

I was talking in general terms. I am aware that Monaco has very low levels of poverty.

However, I think tax havens are extremely unethical and I would find the level of extravagance on display in Monaco to be very distasteful and frankly, obscene.

It has little to do with ethics. When a country is so small, it doesn't need an awful amount of money for infrastructure etc. If it can raise whatever is needed through VAT and a small corporate tax (5%, iirc), why should they need to tax people's income? To make English people feel better about the tax they are paying?

The other thing about low tax economies is that there are often other costs to balance it out. HK has a flat tax rate of 17% (and does have a welfare state- it's NHS is comparable to the UK, schools are pretty good, there is public housing which is almost free if you are on a low income- I'd rather be poor in HK than the UK) BUT private housing costs are 2-3x central London, so basically if you take tax and housing together, you are evens. You need to figure these things out before you ship your whole family there

Cote is right - I am in the ME and the government here does raise tax, it just does not tax personal income (for locals or expats). It is the locals who benefit - through schools, infrastructure, hospitals, etc - from the revenue raised. I don't think that's "unethical" at all - surely fiscal policy is for the country itself rather than you to decide?

I know loads of people who live in australia now and they love it and are very impressed with the schools.

I think it depends what you've come from, if you've had a great "outstanding" school in the UK it's going to make the Aussie ones look quite poor, standards vary massively and it's pot luck.

My little ones teacher seems nice, so day 1 was a success but we'll see, last year was a shower of shite and the teacher loosing my child seems to have been brushed under the carpet.

It depends, if these tax havens encourage tax evaders from other countries and aren't accountable for it.

Encourage? How?

By making it easier to get up residency or opening bank account. Search, for instance Switzerland and Italian tax evaders.

Accountable to whom?
In many cases, the UK government has bilateral tax treaties with the relevant countries. (I believe that is even the case with the UAE which does not tax personal income.) Surely it cannot be "evasion" if the government has given its blessing?

for instance. To the countries money is taken out from.

But if that money has never been liable to tax in that particular country, it's not being "taken" is it? It's money that the Exchequer is not, and never was, entitled to receive (but arguably would be, if the tax regime were different).

I know it's semantics, but it used to wind me up no end when Brown was going on about "taking money out of the economy" when he meant "adopting a more favourable tax position"...

In the case of Italy, there are many loops which allow you to not declare how much money you are making, for instance, and take it to the safety of Swiss banks.
Tax evasion is one of the major problems of Italy. I am aware that Britain has different policies. This doesn't mean that other countries don't suffer from money being illegally siphoned to tax havens.

There is a world of difference between "illegal" activities (e.g. failing to declare, or falsely declaring, turnover and siphoning it off to Swiss banks), and deciding to live in a country because its personal tax regime is more favourable, where that fiscal regime itself has the "blessing" of the UK government by virtue of a bilateral tax treaty. I think we can all agree that the first one is bad (!) but really, you are comparing apples and oranges...

Franca - I'm not sure what you mean by "making it easier to get residency or open bank account". Anyone can get residency anywhere, if they work in that country, or have enough means to live there for the foreseeable future. How is that supposed to "encourage" tax evasion?

I like Australia but was in Queensland recently and the air was hazy due to bush fires, and then there's been floods (with deaths), tornadoes and of course the spiders, snakes and jellyfish, oh and sharks aren't welcoming. I had a holiday there years ago and nobody was swimming in the sea, just in the pool, there were emergency bottles of vinegar ( I think ) so you could treat yourself if stung by a stingray!

Shame, as the sunshine and people are good.

"In the case of Italy, there are many loops which allow you to not declare how much money you are making, for instance, and take it to the safety of Swiss banks. Tax evasion is one of the major problems of Italy."

Then shouldn't Italian government plug those tax loopholes? It seems unreasonable to blame other countries for letting Italians live there.

Lurking, in fact, I wasn't commenting on your personal position or choice to live somewhere with a more favourable tax regime. I merely pointed out that often tax havens that offer a good quality of life have a drawback, and that is to attract money from countries not as solid as the UK.

Cote see the link.

Of course Italian governments should! But Swiss banks should cooperate too!

I get homesick for more than one country these days. It is odd.

DS1 was in an ofsted outstanding school in London, I am just as happy with the school here in Sydney. Am certainly a lot happier with the culture of freedom and independence his school here encourages. It took me a while for me to let go of the UK acquired overprotectiveness.

Pros and cons, will be different for each person. Dangerous wildlife is a pro for me, I like snakes and spiders, and great whites, probably a con for most though.

I was taught about aborignal history when I was at school backin the 80s.

I miss London fiercely some days. New York is next for us when the boys get a bit older.

I wonder if I am maybe mixing homesickness with wanderlust?

The OP should definitely go and have an adventure, but there isn't any country in the world that gets it right for everyone, all of the time.

Cooperate how? Refuse to open bank accounts for Italian nationals?

If you have loopholes in tax legislation, than means those Italians aren't committing any crimes when taking money out of the country. Make it illegal, then you can ask for cooperation in bringing criminals to justice.