To be bloody furious with 5yo dd, and be on the verge of tears over this?

[Lowla]

I'm so angry! Been feeling like this since i picked up dd from school, and i'm just getting angrier with her.

Last month, i sent her into school with a week's dinner money in her new purse. Comes out at hometime telling me i forgot to give her dinner money. The purse is gone, as is the money. No one's seen it nor handed it in. So the teacher told me the school made her up a little sandwich for free.

I've told dd she's not allowed school dinners again, and will have to take packed lunches. She's upset about this because school dinners sit separately from packed lunches, and her 'best friend' is always school dinner.

Today she had P.E. I sent her in with her kit and new shoes.

She comes out at hometime saying i forgot to pack her p.e. kit. Everything was missing. Finally managed to track down her shorts and top in the classroom but her new shoes are gone (they cost me £25!). She says she lost them before P.E and she had to do it in her school hard shoes instead.

I've now had to go and buy a cheap pair of trainers for £5 from ASDA, which don't fit properly because she's a half size, and i had to go into my food budget for them.

She just doesn't give a shit. She has ASD and she just keeps saying 'oh well. never mind. we'll just buy new ones.'

I honestly feel like punching a wall. I realise i'm being totally irrational, but it's the lying that accompanies the losing stuff which pisses me off most. Her teacher claims dd told her that i forgot to pack her gym stuff today. DD also told them last time i gave her no dinner money. In the school's eyes - it's me that's forgetting stuff, not DD.

Since she started school, she's managed to lose a tie, a pair of glasses, a pair of gym shoes, a filled pencil case, her dinner money and purse, her new trainers, her blazer. And i've only got half of the stuff back, despite it being labelled.

Argh! She's in the next room loudly drawing a picture and saying to herself, "This will sure cheer mummy up! Her favourite - a butterfly!"

Dreading her coming in to give me it, because i'm really still angry with her and i'll end up hurting her feelings.

I'm at the end of my tether with her. I can't keep buying her replacement stuff, but what other choice do i have? She NEEDS a tie, she NEEDS a blazer etc etc etc. I'm just so angry with her!

Have you been diagnosed with ASD yourself?

oh yes forgot to say my DD told my DSIL that " mummy and dadddy hit each other!!!!!"

We most certainly do not and I have no idea where it came from! Thankfully my DSIL laughed and we all laughed but if she had said that to the PILS - my god they would belive it - and probably be calling the SS on us so they could adopt her!

You don't know what other children are saying at school either.

She also told the nusery teachers that " mummy lost a baby", which I didnt!

It's good to hear that a lot of your children lie/fantasise too. DD does it with everything though. And i'm not exaggerrating(sp). From the minute i wake her, to tuck her in, she just lies.

"Morning, dd, did you have a nice sleep?" "No, i stayed awake all night."

"Okay, dd, have you eaten your breakfast?" "Yes, but i was so hungry i poured myself another bowl."

I can't even remember the last time we discussed something that didn't contain at least one lie.

Dayshiftdoris - thank you. Your experience sounds really, really similar to mine.

I know it's infuriating but she is only 5 and I've now had to deal with this for the 4th school year with DS 8y. I label everything and a couple of things never turned up anyway. He is pretty good but this school year started with 3/4 first days things going missing inc his school door key fob thing thats been lost twice now and only found once etc. Just keep at it they will learn to look after their own stuff eventually if you keep on expecting them to and talking to them about it .Until then it's a matter of labelling things, having spares and trying to track missing things down at the school and emailing other parents...
I feel like I have to to stay on top of things with DS , DH and now with DD too arrrgh its annoying being responsible for everyones things and remembering everything because none else is !

No, Bamboo, why? Do you also think i have it?

ASD cannot be diagnosed over the internet. It takes at least a year of appointments, waiting lists and reports.

Sheesh!

Pag - what do i want from this thread? Really, i made it to vent. I needed to talk to another adult about how i was feeling. I needed to hear i was being unreasonable feeling so angry. Which i accept i was. And i feel stupid.

What i didn't expect was the nasty replies saying i resent my daughter and she is frightened of me. Ridiculous.

FGS you are being absolutely ridiculous!

Essentially, you are putting her DVD's in the bin because she lost the £10 that you gave to her, the 5YO?!
One minute you are saying that she is 'lying' because she said that she 'lost' the money/trainers/blazer; the next minute you are saying that you can't bare to think about the child who is wearing the blazer/trainers and has the £10 - implying that another child has taken them? If you think that another child has taken the blazer/money/trainers, why on earth are you blaming your daughter?! And if you think she is 'lying' and that she has 'lost' them... then they would surely just be hanging around somewhere in her classroom? Where else would a 5YO possibly be able to lose that many things?

My DD2 is 5 and I can guarantee that if I gave her £10 for dinner money, she would probably swap the whole lot for a bloody leaf or something similar. They don't have a concept of money? If you know that she loses things easily, then maybe you shouldn't have given her the £10 in the first place.

No one has said that they don't discipline their children - it's the fact that you are saying that you will throw DD's DVD's away because she keeps lying. That is exactly what 5YO's do. Only it is called having an imagination . She is not a compulsive liar, she simply has a vivid imagination and sounds like she is trying to have a bit of fun?
If you are really that bothered about her telling you the wrong title of the book/ saying the wrong age, then just make a light joke of it and cheerily say 'No DD, you're 5 now! :) '

I think something visual like a little card/checklist in dd's bag will help. She loves ticking things (she gets me to spell words and then tick them if correct), so i think this could work. I'll just need to find some way of sticking it to her bag.

OP you sound like you are at the end of your teather and need some help getting to grips with the ASD.

I don't think the school are doing all they can, however lovely they are it sounds like they are not really meeting her needs.

You have had some constructive responses and some really ignorant ones - in future use the special needs board to vent your frustrations, it's a much kinder place!

Leaving aside the developmental aspect of lying vs wish-fulfillment - if you take her DVDs off her, you are teaching her if she lies then Mummy takes things away. You're not advancing her understanding of the impact lying has...

Have you actually explained what the effect of lying is? "If you tell lies, then I don't know when you really mean things?" "If you tell me your teacher is lying then the teacher will get in trouble and is that fair/right?".

Are you supporting her learning with e.g. these DVDs of hers, use them to talk about situations where the characters might lie and get themselves into trouble as illustration. Or off the top of my head, there's a Charlie and Lola episode where Lola calls help when she's not really in trouble, so Charlie doesn't believe her when she does need help, for instance. It's on YouTube, . That's the way you can help her learn.

I think, if you read the thread back perhaps in the morning, you have had lots of supportive posts. I hope you can get some advice within those.

I think venting is good. But honestly I think you need some support.
I am not sure you are chosing the most productive methods of helping yourself and your DD. I hope you have somewhere to get advice.
Are you on the SN board. There are people who understand how challenging life is and have experience of working through tough times.

A friend of mine when he visited used noticed when my DD was going thru a particulary " naughty" phase that I kept saying this too her - usually not in a serious or angry way - more looking over specs on the end of the nose way ....." you havant been ...naughty....have you etc"

My friend said " be really careful not to label her and put her in a box, your word is god at the moment - and what you say she will be. For instance..." you dont like brocoli do you"...re affirms that and reminds her of it all the time, as well as saying naughty. "

Anyway I took more notice of things I was saying and focused on the postive and we definalty turned a corner - probably because she grew up a bit more as well...but I do try and not re affirm and go on about negative things all the time.

I wonder if your doing this un wittingly...are you lying again, you always lie - cant you tell the truth, IF you say things like this maybe try not too and focus on the postive...or wow - thats interesting and run with it, the "lie" make it sounds like you enjoy it and turn it into a story.

No, Kate, the DVDs will be confiscated when she tells a big lie/something bad/something that can hurt other people. Not when she loses things.

When she says 'light lies', such as her saying she didn't sleep last night, i shrug it off and smile (but sigh inside "I wish i could have a real conversation with my daughter for once).

I do think the purse and money have been picked up in the yard or something and pocketed by another child. Perhaps an older one. It would take a very honest/good child to hand in £10.

Your daughter sounds like exactly what I was like at her age.

It drove my mother round the bend, as money was tight and she was working all hours to make ends meet, so I can really empathise with the way you must be feeling.

She still keeps the diary I wrote at the time. Every day it says 'today I have lost xxxx. I must learn to be more responsible'.

I honestly, genuinely, had no ill intent at all. I just lived in my own fantasy world and material possessions had no meaning to me. I lied constantly because I forgot what was 'real' and what was not.

I have turned out to be completely normal, with no particular issues relating to losing things. I am a bit absent-minded, and not particularly in love with 'stuff', but I am very responsible and careful with my possessions.

But no amount of anger from my mum made any difference to anything other than her blood pressure.

Just wondered. Wasn't diagnosing. Good luck.

Thanks, Cheese. Yes, that's always been my approach. Explaining why a lie is bad. Explaining how it affects other people. Her SALT has also devised a social story to help with this. Nothing's helped.

Yep, we watch TV together. And she seems to really pick up what the characters are doing. But although she can observe it when i explain it to her, she doesn't seem to relate to it.

IMO, explaining and confiscating a DVD each time she tells a big lie might help. It's worth a shot anyway.

This thread is one of the most distressing I have read for a while.

I think that the school have some very weird ideas about what a child of 5yo is capable of - there are definitely things that the OP could useful discuss with the school, especially in the light of extra support she might need. Perhaps dinner money could be handed to the class teacher on arrival for safe-keeping until the time comes to load their cards with cash.

However, the OP seems to be so angry with a small child who is behaving pretty normally and struggling to live up to the expectations that everyone is placing on her. There seems to be no empathy or understanding, no ideas for making DD's life simpler or trying to resolve any of the problems, there is just blame and anger and a sense that DD would be "better" if she just tried harder. This is so, so .

From a practical point of view the OP could so the following:
a) Speak to the school about how they can help DD - what coping strategies do they suggest for a 5yo with SEN?
b) Find some RL life support with experience of children with ASD - perhaps a local group for parents, or a local charity who work in this area (for example we have the excellent SNAP in Essex).
c) Get on a parenting course - to develop parenting strategies and share ideas and information on how to cope with young children and what can be reasonably expected of them.

Good luck OP and OP's DD.

I lied when I was a kid for a quiet life ..........is this what your dd is doing OP?

Op, you say "For the millionth time, i don't have an anger problem. I've just had a shit day. But it seems you can't admit that on here without being diagnosed as having anger issues. "

Seriously, what do you expect people to think when they are reading what you have written here?

She just doesn't give a shit.
I honestly feel like punching a wall.
Argh! She's in the next room loudly drawing a picture and saying to herself, "This will sure cheer mummy up! Her favourite - a butterfly!"

Dreading her coming in to give me it, because i'm really still angry with her and i'll end up hurting her feelings.

I'm at the end of my tether with her.
I'm just so angry with her!
It's costing me a fortune and she just doesn't care.
Argh! I can't stop crying! I'm actually shaking with anger.
I feel like screaming!
DD's now tantrumming next door about a toy she can't fix. Scared to go in and sort it though because i think it'll set me off again.
i honestly can't even bring myself to look at her right now. She's just so bloody annoying.
I was telling her off all round ASDA after school while buying new trainers and was getting some dirty looks off people. At the time, i felt like ripping their heads off. Especially the old woman who put her trolley in the middle of the aisle, and then tutted at me when i moved it out my way!
i've just told dd that for every time she lies to me, i'm putting one of her DVDs in the bin. Harsh maybe, but i'm sick to death of her lying to me all the time.
DD is clumsy and a compulsive liar.
She has no fear of being told off/disciplined though.
DD doesn't lie out of fear. She doesn't have any fear!
No my dd is not scared of me. She's not scared of anything. Discipline of any kind has no effect on her at all: telling her off, naughty step, no bedtime story, no TV etc etc.
Almost every sentence that comes out of her mouth is a lie. I seriously can't tell the difference between her telling the truth and lie.
I ask her what she did at school today. She lies.
I ask her who she played with today. She lies.
I ask her what book is she looking at. She lies - even though i can see it.

And she doesn't care!

maybe she's just a good liar.
My dd is not scared of me. She's scared of no one. She would tell me if she was.

Every sentence referring to a 5 year old!!!

OP, Does this sound like someone who has anger issues? Honestly? Does this sound like someone who even likes their DD?

And fwiw, if I was your DD, I wouldn't tell you if I had any problems, or was scared of anyone or anything. It's highly unlikely your DD comes across many people she is more scared of than you tbh.

You need help OP, support that I don't think MN can give you, but you need help and you need it fast.

Your posts are full of contradictions and anger and resentment and frustration, which apparently all started because your 5 yr old DD can't behave like a 15 yr old and take full responsibility for her belongings in a way no other 5 year old I know can or does.

Are you going to speak to the school about this completely ineffective system they have wrt you paying for school dinners?
Are you going to speak to the school first thing in the morning about devising some strategies to help your DD to organise her belongings?

Or is it easier to blame a 5 yr old than it is to confront a school about their shit rules?

You could have a look at the "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen" book. Chapter 2 is 'Engaging Co-operation' and Chapter 3 is 'Alternatives to Punishment'. Book summary here to give you and idea of the approaches they suggest.

Eliza - thanks, that's really interesting. I do find myself saying that a lot. "That was a lie wasn't it?" "That's not what really happened, is it?"

I often go along with her light hearted ones and she develops them into stories. She is extremely creative and loves telling stories. But they go on for ages. And it can get a bit tedious. So i don't think i can do this with every lie she tells.

I think i should definitely try to start ignoring the bad, and praising the good more. We tried reward charts etc but she got too obsessive over them. She loves cuddles though. That's what she associates most with praise "a bear cuddle". E.g. "I tidied my toys, can i get a bear cuddle?"

As a Mum with a son who has ASD I would say that you have to change your expectations of how much your DD understands. If she is seeing a SALT then she probably has some language processing issues which means she may look/sound as if she understands but doesn't really. Children with ASD can and do lie but they don't really understand that it's wrong even if they say they do.

How do you explain to her what she needs to do with the money, if you say' your dinner money is in your purse which is in your bag. When you get into school you must give it to your teacher' you will probably have lost your daughter before you get a quarter of the way through the sentence. You have to break it down into separate instruction which at aged 5 is very difficult.

I think you have to totally change the way you parent, it is so different to parenting a NT child who at five would probably have some understanding of following slightly more complicated instructions. The school also has to change the way they expect your DD to comply with the normal school routine simply because she can't follow the more complicated routine expected of the NT children.

I haven't read the whole thread but OMG I am shocked what I am reading on here.

It sounds like there is much more to this than lost kit and money.

OP, do you often get so angry with her over things? It made me v sad to read that you couldn't look at her and found her annoying

Please get some help, you don't want your little girl growing up remembering that mummy was always cross with her.

OP, others have suggested what I was going to suggest:

School should help children in their care take care of their things. You have done your bit by labelling. You can't do any more because you are not there. Just how exactly are they teaching children to take care of their things, given your DD has had so many losses? I think you could very reasonably raise this with them and ask them to support your DD. I'm willing to bet you're not the only parent who is coming off worse to this odd policy.

I was going to suggest a daily tick list as well - but i see you got there first.

Good luck , it does sound v frustrating.

Maybe, just maybe she can't remember exactly what happened, and is trying to make conversation with you???

It's very common for DC of this age to fabricate tales to grasp the adults attention, it's their way of having a conversation with you.

You've said you find her stories go on and become tedious.

Lots of adults lie to gain attention, to get noticed...maybe your DD does this too.
From what you say, your DD appears to want to connect with you, through telling you little stories and cuddles, yet you find this tedious and berate her for lying?

How about realising that a 5 yr old cannot be trusted implicitly to relay information accurately and let her tell her stories. She might just want you to listen instead of telling her off.

One think most children on the spectrum dont have is a vivid imagination though many, many of them will report as adults it was like living in a dream world where they couldnt reach other people.

When Lowla says to her daughter 'How did you sleep honey?' her daughter is in a panic to process and answer that communication - not because she is scared of her mother but because her brain is not wired like other people and so to deflect the anxiety of trying to find the 'right' answer (because there often has be a 'right' answer) she lies...

What I would do is try to reduce that sort of interaction... its a very, very unnatural way to parent but it does bring down the conflict points.

As for school / losing things... draw some boundaries with school so:

1. you will be handing any monies to the office - non negoitable
2. You will label every item that enters the school and provide a visual checklist but you would be very grateful if school could support her using this initially.
3. That the opportunities for DD to use this behaviour must be reduced as it is becoming an issue and as such a communication book is needed.

With the checklist... laminate it, hole punch and then get a normal keyring and attach it to the bag through the hole in the checklist... you can use a springy plastic coil keyring but they can take them off.

Lowla - PM me if you want... I really hope you are in my area as I have just helped to set up a support group for parents who have ASD kids in mainstream x