to ask: What's the point in school uniforms?

[allrightluv]

They serve no purpose and promote conformity. Differences in income are expressed in other ways - shoes, bags, mobiles, in fact, even more so. Kids are judged by which school they go to (state/private). Thanks to the uniform you can tell by a mile off. Kids wear brands anyway - after school, at the weekends and in the holidays, so it's not any cheaper to wear a uniform to school. Consumerism is the most pronounced in the UK of all European countries.

Other countries like Sweden have no uniforms at school and few uniforms in work life, too, and rate much higher in terms of kids' happiness etc.

I'm not saying there's a causal link, but uniforms are not helping...

I just googled what the top girls' school is and it seems to be St Pauls, which doesn't have a uniform. Interesting to read what they say about it. The Sixth form of my girls' school didn't have a uniform and it is true that there was no competitiveness about clothes. We used to wear any old thing! Probably would have been a different story if there had been boys to impress though!

My comment was to SCSF Haberdashery rather than you!

Well - I am guessing that I have spoken to many more kids than you about uniform Haberdashery than you even though you say you have asked every child at your daughter's school if they like their uniform or not!! And not only that you have asked all children at all other schools too - you have been busy!

You don't like uniform but please don't project all of your prejudices on to your kids or other people's kids for that matter.

And as for those people who think that wearing a uniform promotes conformity and 'the system' - what a load of nonsense! There is more to being an individual than what you wear for goodness sake - or are your senses of self so very fragile that you need 'things' to demonstrate to the world how quirky you all are?

That's coming across as a bit goady, countrykitten. Any reason why?

As a teenager I HATED my uniform. Loathed it. Detested it. As a mother of a DD in reception class I LOVE her school uniform. School is not stupid about it - they need the right type of sweatshirt and a polo shirt - everything else is very loose (grey or black skirt, no stipulation about shoes/tights/socks). Non uniform day was very revealing - THANK HEAVENS we don't have to do that every day. Her uniform gets completely covered in glue/paint/snot/food and goes in the wash or gets a good wipe down most nights. Sometimes I iron, mostly I don't. PE kit is whatever you fancy. Most of her non-school clothes are 2nd hand and I don't have a problem with that. Her uniform is 50% 2nd hand too. She's not going to win any prizes for grooming or presentation but she's 5 and she likes mud.

I`m an ex teacher and hate uniforms. They dont look smart, the majortity of state school uniforms are polyester and they look cheap.

I didn't wear uniform at school. My school has some of the best exam results in Scotland. No-one cared what people wore, we all wore jeans, trainers and sweatshirts. I'm horrified at the descriptions of schools that prevent children wearing weather appropriate clothing and completely agree that uniforms make clothing more important than it should be. Oh, and not wearing uniform prepared me perfectly for my career where there is no uniform. Surely most jobs that have a 'uniform' actually just have practical clothing (firefighters, nurses etc)?

DD1 has just started school, all local schools have uniform so we didn't have a choice. Snce starting school she has learnt that 'girls don't wear skirts or jumpers' because that is what happens at school, at nursery she'd spent 4 years wearing boys jeans no problem, she starts school and within a few weeks she stopped wearing skirts. And don't get me started on how the local secondary school female pupils look in their arse skimming skirts and too tight shirt and blazers.

countrykitten, why are you so darn cross about people having a different opinion to yours? You think X, other people think Y, some even think Z. No big deal, surely? Unless I missed the breaking news that you've just overthrown the government, deposed the Queen and crowned yourself Lady High Almighty Mother of the Nation?

Countykitten, your comprehension skills are a bit lacking. Try again.

I dont know of a secondary here in SE London that doesnt have a uniform, I think its very rare for them not now. Luckily, Ds Primary school (that I hope he`ll go to in Sept) doesnt have a uniform, its an Ofsted Outstanding (if that makes any difference) the kids are lovely and they all seem happy.

Prejudices? Crap? My school was dodgy? All because I don't agree?

Kids treated their uniforms with disrespect because they resented them. Ditto on the burning. When you push too hard kids tend to push back. I personally think there are bigger fish to fry than uniforms.

I dont have an issue with uniform where as louisianablue2000 describes it is simply the most appropriate or practical clothing for the job in hand.

For what job is the polyester blazer the most appropriate or practical clothing?

My DCs have yet to find a climatic condition where they have thought 'the best garment for this weather is my polyester blazer!'

Over the years I have come across huge numbers of people who wear a uniform for work. The only ones I have ever come across who wear a polyester jacket or blazer are 'greeters' in building societies.

Lots of the new Academies are enforcing the delightful polyester blazers and clip-on ties. Shiny purple ribbon manufacturers must be pleased.

Shiny purple ribbon manufacturers must be pleased.

Horrible, and I say that as one who likes purple, but it does have to be worn sparingly. A whole sea of it, or bottle green - urgh.

LineRunner - Lots of the new Academies are enforcing the delightful polyester blazers and clip-on ties.

That must be the stringent test my DC's school had to pass to achieve academy status.

If I had to design a school uniform, it be based on black, deep blue and a kind of subtle gold. And that's just the tricorn hat and cape.

And I would make the HT and the Governors wear it first for it for a month as an experiement.

(I can spell, just not on MN.)

Certainly for those schools which have strict uniforms it would be good to see the staff in them. You know, business suits, with different coloured shirts/blouses depending on whether you were part of the senior management team or not. Those schools which are fussy about not taking blazers off in the height of summer - make the staff do the same. It's always better to teach by example.

I went to a school with no uniform. The only rules were that the clothes has to be clean and mended and we had to wear shoes! And there was a big row about that.....
Thoroughly the decade I was at that school all the kids always wore jeans and converse pretty much at all times. I don't recall much pressure about labels and there were state funded pupils there but you'd never know who they were from their clothes.
I don't like uniforms they are alien to me. The dds will have to wear them but I will get over it. I just think they are grim. I especially disagree when the girls may not wear trousers.

I love uniforms.

Makes decisions non existent on busy mornings.

DS1 has a school uniform, both DH and I have adopted 'unofficial' uniforms (i.e. we both wear black trousers with a white shirt and black jacket most days). DS2 wears mostly white & blue.

Love it, keeps the washing right down.

All shirts are white so one load. Boy's shorts and socks and undies are blue so one load. All trousers, adults socks and undies are black so one load.

DONE.

The local high school has black bottom with white polos! Yay!

Morloth that actually sounds quite cool, as though you walk down the street as a family like Reservoir Dogs.

I would like a uniform of black suit and white shirt.

What we tend to get though, at state academies, is an increasingly detached-from-reality pursuit of grammar-ness, to whit:

Polyester blazer with shiny ribbon that costs a lot but looks cheap
Tie (clip-on)
Shirt
Trousers
Special Coat
Jumper with logo - these change annually following consultations to which only the deranged parent governors' responses are ever logged
Shoes (oh yes)
Socks
Complete PE kit the fussy likes of which would put Jessica Ennis to shame
PE bag
School bag
Pencil case

I await the letter about regulation uniform logo-ed underwear from a sole supplier with anticipation.

I never thought I would be in favour of a uniform but I kinda am in a arse about face sort of a way.

I don't think they should be able to regulate hair styles, foot wear ( providing its practical ) coats

But I do think trousers/ skirts a hoody or sweatshirt and either shirt or polo shirt. If they want a logo they should sell patch logos that parents can add to items requiring logos.

One of my older children's schools (independent ) had a basic uniform but you have to earn the right to wear the logo jumper, it sounds weird but its does have a positive result,

Each child has a indervidual target plan suitable to them and when they have met the targets at the next assembly they get presented with the jumper and its a big deal.

DC is on the student council and they vote most years on uniform changes and other stuff to do with uniforms and every time they vote to keep the earn it rule.

CountryKitten, my DCs attended primary school that had a uniform (albeit a practical one and with flexibility built in for gym days for children up to age 8 who wore either the gym shorts and Ts or sweatpants and Ts on gym days) and the only reason there was a uniform was to reinforce the aim of having the children conform and be a part of the system. Their high school had no uniform.

In the US, pretty much the only schools that have uniforms are Catholic and Lutheran religious schools both primary and secondary, and inner city academies or troubled public schools (primary and secondary) -- and the reason for that is to promote conformity and adherence to the system. In the case of the religious schools conformity involves acceptance of the religious message. In the case of academies and troubled public (state) schools the uniform is touted as a means of reforming behaviour and promoting adherence to the values the schools promote, the 'system', if you will.

I say up the revolution
If 60% of kids turned up in schools over the uk on Monday without uniform and continued to refuse to wear it we would crack the system and uniform would no longer be compulsory
People power is where it's at

This view may have been put across already - I haven't read the whole thread.

I used to work in a fairly affluent area and had a bit of a 'what's the point of uniform' attitude initially. However, behaviour always deteriorated when the children had own clothes days. I can't really explain why, but I do think uniforms help to improve behaviour, when strictly enforced. However - I did not agree with the day spent in internal exclusion for uniform infringements.

My current school seems to have the balance right - uniform rules are pretty strict, but infringements are dealt with by a short DT at the end of the day, which seems much more sensible. It has been since working here that I have realised how important uniforms are. We have real poverty. I recently went on a school trip where children were told to wear own clothes. About half turned up in their school uniform and the did the 'oh rubbish I didn't see that on the letter'. They did know they were to wear non-uniform but chose to wear their uniform. Some of these children don't have any clothes that fit them. However, their uniform hides the poverty they are in from their friends and they feel more confident and equal to their peers.

I like there being a uniform, it's one less thing to worry about. Yes I still get moaned at because I won't/can't buy an iPad but I would still have this if I was having to buy designer clothes.

My DC don't wear designer clothes outside school either.