to ask: What's the point in school uniforms?

[allrightluv]

They serve no purpose and promote conformity. Differences in income are expressed in other ways - shoes, bags, mobiles, in fact, even more so. Kids are judged by which school they go to (state/private). Thanks to the uniform you can tell by a mile off. Kids wear brands anyway - after school, at the weekends and in the holidays, so it's not any cheaper to wear a uniform to school. Consumerism is the most pronounced in the UK of all European countries.

Other countries like Sweden have no uniforms at school and few uniforms in work life, too, and rate much higher in terms of kids' happiness etc.

I'm not saying there's a causal link, but uniforms are not helping...

Mrsbunny, why do they need to look businesslike? They are children, they should look like children.

Making the point that you teach at a school that your students are proud to attend? How is uniform related to this? If it's a good school, surely they'd be proud of it regardless of the uniform or lack of it?

YABU school uniforms are a great equaliser and make mornings so much easier

Linerunner, I am totally shocked by this. I would certainly do something. I am sure the only legal 'basis' a state school has to make you wear a uniform is the document they make you sign at the start of the term 'accepting' their terms. The right to education cannot be dependent on how you dress, but to add the coat on top of it is unbelievable.

Loved your post worriedteenmum

And all those teachers who love uniforms, could they explain to us why they don't use one themselves?

I hated uniforms. You always knew who the rich kids were anyway. They wore nicer shoes, had nicer bags, they had more uniforms so theirs always looked better and less worn. If they had a growth spurt they never had to wear slightly too small shirts because it was only a few weeks until the end of term. The uniforms were uncomfortable polyester crap. I hated having to look exactly like everyone else. I hated that the boys had to ask a teacher before they could take their blazers off, even when it was baking hot.

Uniforms cost a lot so I had two skirts. Great if I spilled something and my other one wasn't clean. I got glue on a skirt once and then I had one skirt. I had really hard to fit feet as a kid, usually we could only find one pair of shoes in the whole city that would fit me and would meet uniform policy. They were ugly and uncomfortable.

Really really thankful that DCs don't have uniforms. DS#2 has a reasonable dress code though. They have to wear collared shirts that can't be sports shirts and trousers or shorts that aren't sports ones either. DS finds a lot of clothes uncomfortable to wear and it has been a challenge finding collared shirts that he is comfortable wearing. Luckily he finds secondhand ones are often softer and don't break his skin out. DS#1 can wear almost anything that is intact, decent and without inappropriate prints on them (sexual, gang symbols, racist, alcohol etc)

What does one do if the kid is allergic to the school uniform?? DS can't wear certain fibres.

I think school uniform is fine for opt-in schools, but should not be compulsory for local state schools.

I thought, as far as primary is concerned, school uniform can't be legally enforced.

I went to primary on a rough council estate, we had a uniform but some kids would wear a multicoloured non-uniform sweater or I think I had bright red trainers at one point... black shoes were definitely not strictly adhered to!

'make mornings so much easier '

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Parents on this thread have said repeatedly that not having a uniform does NOT in fact cause any problems and in fact it solves them. I repeat also, that if you are reliant on school uniform to ensure you can manage your parent/child relationship without angst then you really need to pull you regulation parenting socks up!

Oh Northern that's a bit of a stretch don't you think

I think she's right. If your child won't get dressed for school without a struggle of some kind at school age (obv discounting toddlers here), that's a parenting fail not a uniform fail. My daughter bloody hates uniform but I don't have much trouble stopping her whinging (even though I secretly agree) because I am over forty and she is a small child.

Also adults often (not always admittedly) but usually have some sort of choice in what sort of work they do. Even if it is a choice they made at the beginning of their working lives or a choice between having a good living and being poor, it is still a choice. If you are the sort of person who can't abide wearing shirt and tie then you probably wouldn't choose to be a stock broker. Kids often have much fewer choices, they legally have to go to school and they often have no choice which school they can go to, then we force them to dress like robots, all the same, one giant wave of navy blue/grey/bottle green etc. It is so depressing being forced to dress the same way, day in day out knowing it is going to be your life for the next 10 (whatever) years.

Haberdashery, you may find you have a different experience when she is a sulky 14 year old.

I can see where NorthernLurker is coming from. I detest the idea of making small children wear blazers (WTF in real life wear blazers?) and ties and silly hats. But our school has school uniform that's relaxed and easy. They don't insist on school crest. Just more or less the right colour. And they don't fuss about shoes too much. So we can live with that. And I say no making them wear anything that has to be ironed until they can bloody iron the stuff themselves. What do they think parents are? Some kind of ironing slave?

oh and as for uniform making you feel pride and togetherness or whatever, well the kids in my school would drag their blazers along the ground behind them and draw on their ties and anything else they could get away with. There was a lot of ceremonial burning of uniforms at the end of 5th year complete with good riddance sentiments.

I remember my school years being told petty things about skirt lengths and shoe colours. I remember obeying all the rules (because that way you can get away with other things that are more important to you) and I remember the utter contempt I had in my head that has not gone away.

Should I go for therapy?

Yes, Spoony, I'll probably be going through the menopause by then and be twice as grumpy!

Seriously, though, I would put the time in to make sure my child understands why some things are appropriate and some not. I know it doesn't always work. But it has a better chance of working if your child has to deal with the consequences of their clothing choices on a daily basis.

UptoapointLordCopper, you do not need to go to therapy. You need to be my therapist. I wish I was like that. I may try to give your example to my kids re the real use of uniforms

LordCopper and Spoony St Trinian's? Will will all be there together in this life or the next?

Copper, me too, I was the good girl who did what she was told, skirt not to short, not too long, no makeup, right shoes etc, all the while thinking in my head how much time and effort was spent on stupid crap that really didn't matter. I lost respect for the adults who would give detentions to boys who loosened their ties because they were too hot or who wouldn't let us wear tracksuit bottoms when it was SNOWING and we had to play tennis outside.

SCSF - you obviously went to a pretty dodgy school then.

I amazed at the crap some of you are posting about uniform. It is a good thing, on the whole kids like it, it definitely lessens the differences between rich and poor, it creates a sense of belonging, it instills discipline and the importance of being well presented and it is easy for parents and pupils alike. i have asked kids about this on a few occasions and only at the roughest and most God awful school I taught at did the kids hate the uniform and the discipline (self and imposed) that it represented.

I concede that it may not always be cheap (our blazers are around £80) but there are always second hand uniform shops in schools - ours is very well used - which help with this.

Are many of you uniform haters actually teachers?

Hahaha... Finally, all these years in the UK wondering what the real point of the almost universal rule of wearing uniforms was. And I have found the answer: it is to make children aware at an early age of the stupidity of the 'system'. And to survive within it doing what really matters. Thank you women.

SCSF that was regarding your post about setting fire to your uniforms etc not the above post!

you obviously went to a pretty dodgy school then.

I went to the best girls school in the country. Which doesn't have a uniform.

Kids don't like it; you are completely kidding yourself. Why on earth would they? I didn't like it when I was a child, I don't know a single child at my daughter's school who likes it and I don't know a single child at any other school who likes it either. I do know some who parrot the official 'it makes us proud of our school line' but generally if you ask them why they haven't actually got an answer. They've just been told that that's how they are meant to feel.

Countrykitten, does it matter whether uniform 'haters' are teachers? I don't hate them, but I do not think the reasons pro-uniform are real.

And the same reasons could be applied to make teachers were them.

"Parents on this thread have said repeatedly that not having a uniform does NOT in fact cause any problems and in fact it solves them. I repeat also, that if you are reliant on school uniform to ensure you can manage your parent/child relationship without angst then you really need to pull you regulation parenting socks up! "

I was thinking about being the child actually - getting dressed takes me so much longer now can make decisions!

Apparently my old school is rated as Outstanding. I went to a Russell group uni as did a number of my friends. We had some fantastic teachers and often they were the ones who had no problems with classroom control because the kids respected them. There were others that had dreadful classroom control and could shout and demand until the day is done.

DS#2's school is one of the most sought after school places in our very large city (we lucked out because his brother went there so he got a sibling place). Kids have a huge huge amount of pride for their school and a really strong sense of identity and know they are blessed to be there. They don't wear uniforms. It really isn't necessary to forge a great school. Entry is by lottery, no cherry picking and pretty much 100% (perhaps 1 doesn't) of their graduates go to college. Including the ones with socio-economic challenges.