Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be really annoyed you can't get points on formula?

373 replies

Jengnr · 30/01/2013 09:53

Due to 'Government legislation'

How about the Government fuck off? I've made the decision (actually, it was made for me but that's neither here nor there), I'm spending the bloody money, why should I not be able to collect advantage points on that?

Wankers.

OP posts:
stargirl1701 · 30/01/2013 23:15

No, I guess not. But...I'm not there yet. It's only been 3 months Grin

5madthings · 30/01/2013 23:16

My dd is 25mths and it took a while to get here star and you have done amazingly well to trelactate, be proud of that xxx

stargirl1701 · 30/01/2013 23:19

Thank you. It's been hard work. I can only get her latch lying down in the morning at the mo but it's a start. I have, though, developed some positive memories of bf (finally!) so, if nothing else, it'll mean I will try to bf if we have another baby. I think if I hadn't gone on this journey I wouldn't have because I felt so negative about the whole experience.

SamSmalaidh · 30/01/2013 23:23

It's not supposed to promote breastfeeding. It's supposed to protect formula feeders from dodgy marketing practices.

5madthings · 30/01/2013 23:24

You really have done amazingly well and I am glad you now have positive feeling and memories, they are moments to reassure and if it means you have the confidence to try again with another baby that is great. Look at all you have learn along the way! :)

5madthings · 30/01/2013 23:24

Not treasure, moments to treasure!! Grr autocorrect.

stargirl1701 · 30/01/2013 23:25
Grin
FrozenNorthPole · 30/01/2013 23:28

Just wanted to say how bloody brilliant it is to hear that you have positive memories of breastfeeding, and your little DD will latch a bit. What a great job you have done.

Re Polka - I do find it interesting when someone claims to have one study 'proving' something and showing that something has been 'discounted' as a hypothesis. It tends to mean either that said study was so utterly compelling in its significance that it has caused a paradigm shift across the epidemiological community (in this case) ... or to mean that a bit of cherry-picking is going on.

pickledparsnip · 30/01/2013 23:53

stargirl I wish I could have too. You are bloody amazing though, relactating? Wow!

pickledparsnip · 31/01/2013 00:00

Definitely agree about there not being enough support when things go wrong. My boy had a rough start, and ended up in hospital with big weight loss and jaundice. The amount of women I had try to help get him latched on was unreal. Every time I was told that I couldn't make him feed, just go onto formula, breastfeeding isn't for everyone. I pumped like mad whilst he was in neonatal ward so that he would be fed. I just refused to believe that I couldn't feed him, but completely understand why women do formula feed due to lack of support. I had to fight like mad to get help. Our last night in hospital we got help from an amazing midwife. She made it seem so simple, she just popped him on and he fed for 40 mins straight whilst I sobbed. Midwives and nurses need to believe in breastfeeding in order to help women.

pickledparsnip · 31/01/2013 00:05

5madthings there is no milk bank down my neck of the woods either. They should be available to everyone.

JoanByers · 31/01/2013 00:40

Most mothers at least start to breastfeed.

Breastfeeding rates are lowest among those with the lowest incomes, which is ironic given what is being discussed in this thread.

gimmecakeandcandy · 31/01/2013 07:53

Star girl and pickledparsnip - what amazing stories. Yes more support and professionals who 'believe' in bf is definitely needed. Your perseverance is amazingly x

MrsDimples · 31/01/2013 08:05

YABU

& very uninformed regarding the politics of breast feeding.

Bigger Picture than your clubcard statement.

PolkadotCircus · 31/01/2013 10:44

Morning

Not got links as can't be arsed and to be frank anybody with half a brain knows what causes obesity. The eczema study was from the Univerity of Copenhagen and. I think you can find it on Reuters if you can be arsed.It was widely reported at the time.

I stand by what I said- bfing most certainly does not protect you from obesity.

If you have a mother who feeds you a high fat diet loaded with fat,shite and sugar whilst providing very little exercise and even worse models said eating of crap in her own behaviour you will in all likelihood be obese and no amount of bfing in the world will protect you from that. Not eating together as a family giving your children huge portions,letting them play with screens far too much,not letting kids play outside enough-all work towards giving you an obese child not ff.

If you ff your child(which vast maj if parents do at some point,very few bf exclusively)and then provide a diet rich in fruit/veg,low in fat and sugar and plenty of exercise with correct child size portions and model good eating habits yourself unless there is something genetically wrong it would be nigh on impossible to have an obese child.

If you are one of the very few people in the world who don't know what causes obesity then check out the WHO website on obesity causes.You'll note that ffing quite obviously isn't listed as a cause.You'll also note that food marketing is which brings us onto the op.

Obesity in this country is escalating at an alarming rate,a third of children are leaving primary school obese.Mothers are feeding their kids crap and far too much of it.In this country the blind eye turned to the crap sold for children and the marketing is what is truly shocking and those on the anti formula crusade might want to consider getting their knickers in a twist over something which is directly attributed to dire health in children in sky high numbers and which nobody disputes.Personally I think if we're going to ban promotion of foods and loyalty points-crap food marketed at kids should come first but no people want cheap food and hypocritically would rather get in a lather over a food which for many children is one of the healthiest foods they'll sadly consume instead of the elephant in the room.

I don't cherry pick,there is simply nothing to cherry pick from as the studies that some posters(happily an ever increasing minority) choose to stat twist and scaremonger from only ever involve tiny numbers and can rarely(if ever)be directly attributed to formula.Hence my and most other sane ff's deduction that although better breast feeding as a choice isn't worth getting in a lather about or making yourself miserable for.

Sooooo please don't attempt to bully me into admissions of guilt I simply don't have.I'm not a failed breast feeder,I did 6 weeks and after having 2 out of 3 dehydrated and seriously under weight(1 in SCBU)from bfing I chose to call it a day.All 3 (and me)thrived on formula so it was a very smart move.

I have 3 very slim,healthy,bright and happy children. I feed my children a very healthy diet,far healthier than many children eat and we have a very healthy outdoorsy lifestyle.I'm very proactive re schoolwork,provide loads of books and little screen time which is why I have 3 children doing very well at school. I give my children plenty of attention,use language well,ensure they get masses of sleep and the results speak for themselves.I have a lot to be proud of and if I was that way inclined much to criticise others about.Being a sane well balanced human being I don't feel the need.As a mother I try to keep things in perspective and be aware that it is a marathon not a sprint and some you win whilst some you lose.

Breast feeding is a tiny choice of many and if I was ever going to feel guilt as a mother it would be over things like introducing my kids to sugar,given the fact that a vegetarian diet reduces heart attack risks by a third not raising my dc as veggies,not being screen free,my dc not eating 10 a day however many rainbows of veg they've been introduced to over the years,not always modelling the best behaviour etc etc.

As it is I try to keep some perspective,it's high time some other posters did the same.

stargirl1701 · 31/01/2013 12:16

You can't extrapolate the anecdotal experience you have had with your family into a population scale. It doesn't work like that.

Babies should drink the milk of their own species. This is the crux of the argument. While bf till 6 months is rare in the UK, that is not true on an global basis.

This thread was about earning points for formula. Given what is public knowledge about the practices of the formula companies, I am very glad we have implemented the WHO guidelines. I just would like more support available for bf mums.

stargirl1701 · 31/01/2013 12:28

Found a link to the research regarding eczema & bf.

www.kcl.ac.uk/newsevents/news/newsrecords/2011/08August/Prolonged-breast-feeding-not-protect-against-eczema.aspx

stargirl1701 · 31/01/2013 12:29

From the Independent re bf and obesity:

Mothers who breastfeed reduce their risk of obesity decades later, research has shown.
Childbirth and breastfeeding have significant, but opposite, effects on long-term weight, according to a study of 740,000 post-menopausal women.
Scientists found that the more children a woman had, the heavier she was likely to be in later life.
But average body mass index (BMI) was lower in women who breastfed, irrespective of how many times they had given birth.
BMI is a standard measurement relating weight and height. A BMI of 30 marks the point at which an overweight person becomes obese.
Every six months of breastfeeding reduced a woman's long-term BMI by 1%, the research showed. This was after taking account of factors known to influence obesity risk such as smoking, exercise and social deprivation.
The findings are reported in the International Journal of Obesity.

PolkadotCircus · 31/01/2013 12:35

Certainly haven't extrapolated my experience at all and re population scale that is exactly it- any risks of anything re formula are low,rarely directly attributed and more often that not negated in research further down the line-a whole host of many other parenting choices carry far,far bigger risks that are directly attributed with plenty of reliable research.

Re loyalty points,it is ridiculous and hypocritical. Advertising ban agree with to a point however I think there should be an advertising ban on junk food too as it causes actual damage and plenty of it.I think the lack of a junk food ban alongside a formula ban actually causes more damage as some mums will falsely believe I bf so can turn a blind eye to the shit I feed my dc.The same applies with loyalty points and to be frank mums have to buy formula once they have started ff whilst they don't have to buy junk food so really if one wants to start picking and choosing re points people have earned in a shopping basket it would be more prudent to look elsewhere.

PolkadotCircus · 31/01/2013 12:44

Feel free to Google the report I mentioned re exzema and WHO stats on obesity or do you just ignore reports/research that go against you point of view,also as I said reports come and go and any evidence in this subject is often tangible and stat twisted.

Re obesity you can bf all you like but if you eat pies and lounge about all day you will get obese link all you like but nothing will change that fact.

If by some miracle bfing miraculously made the lack of exercise,pies and doughnuts melt away which it never would do I'n not sure 1% is going to give Weight Watchers a run for it's money.Grin

FrozenNorthPole · 31/01/2013 12:53

Here is a useful open access summary of 3 meta-analyses regarding the effect of breastfeeding upon the downstream probability of overweight and obesity in children.
www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/nutrition/pdf/breastfeeding_r2p.pdf
The link has NOT been negated. And yes, I know what I'm talking about. I'm a public health researcher working on epidemiological efforts to decrease obesity.

Other parenting choices do make a difference. But breastfeeding reliably makes a difference too: the two are not mutually exclusive. You can definitely argue that other things make more of a difference, and I give credence to some of those arguments. But you cannot argue that feeding makes no significant difference, particularly if you refuse to cite your sources.

5madthings · 31/01/2013 12:59

You seem a bit obsessed with the idea that mothers who bfeed have a crap diet and feed their children crap. I bfed and formula fed and feed my children a good diet.

My children are also bright and healthy and get read to yadda yadda yadda but they are seperate points and maybe they should stop giving points for unhealthy foods in the same way you don't get points on alcohol and cigarettes but that us a separate debate but you can always try campaigning to your local mp for a change.

The legislation is there for a reason, you mast think its clumsy and Ill thought out but it wouldn't have been necessary if formula companies didn't operate in the way they do so it is their fault and the high prices are their fault so it would make sense to direct your anger towards therm, if they change then maybe the policies will change.

FrozenNorthPole · 31/01/2013 12:59

From a researcher statement on the Kings College London study to which you refer re: eczema:
"This study isn?t about the benefits of infant formula milk versus breast milk, nor is it questioning other benefits of breast feeding, but it is about whether breastfeeding exclusively for prolonged periods and weaning after six months, as opposed to after four months, has any impact on eczema risk."
So it is more complex than breastmilk = no protection; they looked at optimal age for starting solids as well. They certainly do not suggest at any point that breastmilk increases the risk of eczema.

I do not understand what you mean about research being "tangible". Did you mean to use this word?

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 31/01/2013 13:03

Polkadot - IME mothers who BF are not the ones who are weaning their babies onto cake and crisps at 5 months.

5madthings · 31/01/2013 13:03

Thank you for that frozen I had had a look for the study and found some references, I didn't think they would suggest not breastfeeding if there is a higher risk of breeding. Its something I read about quite a bit as I have eczema so was careful with weaning etc. Genetics plays a huge role with eczema as well but IMO it was worth trying what I could to help.

Swipe left for the next trending thread