to think Mary Berry is at best naive, and at worst deluded, about feminism?

[MardyBraWouldDoEddieRedmayne]

Times link if you can get through the paywall
free Daily Mail link

Apparently feminists are shouty. We should enjoy being "looked after" and gently persuade our menfolk with our feminine wiles to do what we want. It's alright if you're surrounded by well-meaning malleable blokes.

No mention of equal pay, equal voting rights, equal employment opportunities, freedom from sexual discrimination or harrassment, etc. No - all you need to do, is "persuade them [men] gently to do things and, of course, when they come back they say, ?Oh, wasn?t that fun?? Try telling that to victims of domestic violence Mary...

monica77798 - so do you mean feminists don't want to work alongside men as their equal, they want men to work for them as their underpin? Basically reverse the roles so men aren't charge, women are?

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1278554/How-privileged-Cabinet-damning-indictment-Britains-comprehensives.html

'Indeed, it is hard to resist the suspicion that British politics has become an exclusive club, dominated by public schoolboys, and that an old school tie and Oxbridge connections are the passport to that club.'

Found this article praising Thatcher. Haven't read it all, but makes some good points.

'As a middle-class woman fighting her way through a world dominated by upper-class men, Margaret Thatcher had to overcome obstacles far greater than any faced by today?s politicians.

Confronted at every turn by sexism and snobbery, she became the embodiment of grit, drive and determination.

Her background could hardly have been more different from the gilded childhood enjoyed by today?s privileged leaders. Born to Grantham grocer Alfred Roberts, in 1925, the young Margaret Roberts grew up above the shop, steeped in the values of thrift, hard work and good housekeeping.

This was little changed later by gaining power. In 1981, as documents released by the National Archives last week show, she was astonished by civil servants? plans to spend £2,000 refurbishing Downing Street.

Thrifty as ever, she even insisted on paying £19 for her own ironing board. Compare that with the £680,000 of taxpayers? money that David Cameron has spent renovating Downing Street!'

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2083330/The-Iron-Lady-Well-awe-Margaret-Thatcher-years-Blair-Major-forgotten.html

I personally think Blair crippled large parts of the nation by making them dependant.

Thatcher gave the message - go out and better yourself, work harder and you can rise to better things and live a middle class lifestyle.

Blair gave the message - you can live a middle class lifestyle but you don't have to better yourself and work harder, all you have to do is work the hours that suit you and we will top up the rest.

Now we have people who think you can do a 20 hour week on the hours that fit in around your life and still have the lifestyle of someone doing 60 hour weeks working around the clock. That's not reality.

divine providence not provenance - I think that is a region of France

I'm not going to give credence to an article praising Thatcher in the Daily bloody Mail for God's sake!

You can appreciate that she was a very hard worker and was clever and was determined, without admiring her politics.

That's right - A Year in Provenance by Peter Mayle.

Did Mrs Thatcher ever work in business - I thought she was a chemist?

I'll accept she may have bagged the odd apple, but I had a Saturday job in the Body Shop. Doesn't make me Anita Roddick.

If she just inherited the feel for being a grocer from her father, I'm not sure that she is that different to George Osborne, who I suspect could talk about wallpaper, if the political occasion called for it.

Still, she seems to have spent huge amounts of energy propping up her rather difficult son, so I suppose in that respect she has a lot in common with other mothers.

I'm not convinced that £19 for an ironing board was a particularly thrifty purchase in the 1970's. She was had.

'That's right - A Year in Provenance by Peter Mayle.'

That's the one. A classic. I have read it twice!

Doubt statistic is true - women on the whole earn less.

Anti-feminism is a problem - it is self respecting to argue for your equality, those that aspire to inequality are everywhere but are not really anything to do with the feminist movement, they are uber captialists, unsorted people who think inequality is just how life is.

Sound people respect themselves and others including self-respecting feminists.

Not all of us want to hear about THATCHER - BRINGS BACK BAD MEMORIES.

'Did Mrs Thatcher ever work in business'

I presume she helped out in her father's shop, but I haven't read her biography, which is something for which I am amiss.

My mum was a physiotherapist. When my mum was short on child care she often took me in to work. I know nothing about physiotherapy. (Except for frozen peas and raise the affected limb).

I suspect that Mrs T. spent more time with her books than in the shop, hence her academic success. On the other hand, like many politicians, she came from a politically active family. I suspect she was more influenced by her father being a local councillor and later mayor than his grocer's shop.

Also, marrying a millionaire at 26 would have been really helpful. If only more women would follow that example, there would definitely be more women in politics today.

There are a lot of Thatcher supporters. I found when I was clearing books this weekend a letter to me from her office in 1980 with a photograph - she wished me well in my university exams which was nice. I think I'd written (as a feminist) to congratulate her on the election victory. I was at university but too young to vote as I went a year young. I think people have forgotten how much good she did and how many of us owe her so much.

She certainly inspired many and it is a pity no main party has managed to drum up a single female leader since. Very poor show.

merrymouse you are correct, she was influenced more by her fathers active role in politics and also her books rather than the business side of things. She did used to help out in the shop, that wouldn't have been a choice as everyone had to help. She had a very strict upbringing, very regimented and had to attend church every Sunday, sometimes twice.

Her being married to a very rich man allowed her to pursue her career in politics. She did go to University and gained a degree in science, something which she later regretted because her passion was politics.

Even though she was married to millionaire i don't think she had an easy ride in politics and certainly earned her way through. Her goal wasn't even to be the Tory leader nor prime minister, she didn't even think she would win the Tory leader spot, her aim was to just shake things up abit and it was just as much a suprise to her as it was to anyone else when she won.

You can accuse Mrs T. of many things, but I don't think anybody would argue that she didn't work for her success.

(Although still confused about the ironing board - maybe they adjusted the price for inflation?)

You can accuse Mrs T. of many things, but I don't think anybody would argue that she didn't work for her success

Marrying a millionaire who supported her whilst she hawked herself around as a prospective parliamentry candidate and paid for a full-time nanny didn't do her any harm either.

She was certainly no feminist and for the majority of her time in office, promoted no women to cabinet.

moonlight How did she create the recession we have now?

Upthread I posted she deregulated the banks she brown nosed all the capitalists let them do what they wanted to do basically and look where that's got us.

Iam aware that it could've been undone by Mr Blair et al but why kill the golden goose? Till it kills itself of course. As the Queen said "Did nobody foresee the end of the bubble?"

I'm not interested in discussing Margaret Thatcher, but I am very surprised that The Times invited the opinion of Netmums . I'm not surprised, however, that it was a bit rubbish and added nothing of value to the debate.

why would i care for the opinion of someone who would still make a chocolate cake with cocoa and veg oil some 58 years after the end of rationing?

(date of end of rationing from wiki, i thought it was later)

I should think Mary has been cossetted all her life and never been treated badly by anyone let alone men or society I am so glad I didn't bother to watch and btw she never eats much at the tastings her teeth won't allow it if you watch carefully.

Am I correct in thinking there was a programme entitled "The Mary Berry Story" on BBC2 tonight ?

What fortuitous timing some semi-controversial comments of hers found their way into the press this week then

Margaret Thatcher put the luxury rate of VAT on tampons - nuff said.

Feminism hasn't yet achieved it's ideals in the UK. We'll know it has when:-

1. "I believe you" campaigns are no longer needed
2. Female circumcision and forced marriage no longer occur.
3. Single mothers stop being blamed by the popular press for all societies ills
4. Men have access to DV refuges, & associated support services, including those for rape victims. (male rape is grossly undereported).
5. Shared care is the default for babes off the breast, and non-payment of maintenance is treated as a criminal offence. The benefits and tax system is changed to reflect this.
6. Social mobility and equality of opportunity becomes a reality for both sexes.
7. Both sexes manage to obtain the same rate of pay for the same work at the same performance level every single time.

8.Men who abandon their offspring suffer the same degree of social finger pointing that women do.

1. We see grey haired women presenting the news nightly on our TV screens.

10. The ratio of women left to eke out a poverty stricken old age lowers to that of men who find themselves in the same position

Mary Berry should count her blessings and be damn grateful to those that campaigned before and alongside her own charmed life. Women still have a long way to go. We can celebrate the differences between the sexes while acknowledging that globally women are still more likely to be victims of oppression than the beneficeries of choice and opportunity at every stage of life. Infanticide or abortion due to gender is almost always female.