Yesterday was Holocaust Memorial Day. I'm afraid we're heading that way again.

[garlicblocks]

"It is estimated that close to 250,000 disabled people were murdered under the Nazi regime. Persecution of people with disabilities began in 1933, but mass murder commenced in 1939.

"The organised killing of disabled children began in August 1939 ... All children under the age of three who were suffering from conditions such as Down?s syndrome, hydrocephaly, cerebral palsy or ?suspected idiocy?, were targeted. A panel of medical experts were required to give their approval for the ?euthanasia? of each child. In the first few months of the program this was usually achieved either by lethal injection or by starving the child to death. Many parents were unaware of the fate of their children, instead being told that they were being sent for improved care.

"The first experimental gassings took place at the killing centre in Brandenberg and thousands of disabled patients were killed in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms. Now that a fast and effective method of mass-murder had been developed it could of course be used to exterminate gays, Gypsies, political opponents and of course over six million Jews.

"Worryingly, in 2012 in Great Britain, Geoffrey Clark, a local government candidate for the UK Independence Party in a by-election in Gravesham, Kent posted this on his website:

"Consider compulsory abortion when the foetus is detected as having Downs, Spina Bifida or similar syndrome which, if it is born, will render the child a burden on the state as well as on the family."

"Although UKIP suspended Clark?s party membership when this hit the news, it was too late to cancel his candidacy. He came second to the conservatives with almost 27% of the vote."

What can we do about escalating persecution of the disabled and otherwise 'unproductive' people in the UK? Are we heading back towards forced sterilisation and murder?

Darkesteyes, surely you have considered the medical advances, physical infrastructure, medication, etc. allowing more people with physical or mental health disabilities to function better?

How the fuck does that help my friends son.

Even if he was just only physically disabled WHICH HE ISNT. there is the lack of public transport for the disabled. many busses arent fitted with ramps and when they are the driver is reluctant to get the ramp out in the pissing rain. To use a train with a chair or scooter you have to give THREE DAYS notice.

OMG! Does it class workfare as employment??

Not going to look it up now (I get lost in those tables, then end up knowing stacks of things I'll never, ever have call to know. I'm such an interesting person )

Yes Garlic. i saw something about it online just before Christmas. It classes workfare as being employed.

blacktrianglecampaign.org/2013/01/15/condems-fiddling-employment-stats-105000-on-workfare-schemes/

Of those counted as employed 105"000 were on back to work schemes.

From the same link.

A parliamentary answer from the ONS director general, Glen Watson, given in October last year, confirms that even if people were claiming jobseeker?s allowance, they could still be counted as employed.

He said: ?Those participants [in government schemes] whose activity comprises any form of work, work experience, or work-related training, are classified as in employment. This is regardless of whether the individual is paid or not.?

OMFG. We are in the land of make-believe.

Haha, I'm employed, then! Had my Work programme referral at Christmas - last time I'll see the unhappy JCP advisor. So, OK. I'm not working. I'm a benefit claimant (not getting them just now, but that's another story.) I earn zero.
But I'm employed.

[you will be]

Soooo. Should Daily Mail readers hate me because I don't work, earn or pay tax?
Or love me because I'm employed?

I looked only at the raw ons data, the current series and one from 2002 that had quarterly numbers since 1995. It went down slightly and then started rising again. Honestly I'm not sure how meaningful the trends might be in the past 20 years but over a longer period there would have been far fewer people labeled disabled or drawing upon benefits. I don't pretend to know in a nutshell all the reasons, I'm sure there has been plenty of analysis around it though.

I have read this thread from beginning to end and would like to thank Garli and Hectate as well as many others but can't find the braincell to go back and name all, for their input.

At this moment in time it is not an actual holocaust but it seems to be the beginning of one as has already been stated.

Being 54 after working all my working life except fro time off to bring my children up (15 years I was a SAHM) I developed seropositive Rheumatoid Arthritis, COPD, Oestioarthritis and Psosrasis, all chronic conditions that cannot be cured only managed to a certain extent with medication. As a result of this there are days when I can barely move about, even on a good day it can take a couple of hours before I can start mobilising. I can only sleep for a couple of hours at a time so suffer Chronic fatigue and need to sleep during the day.

The medication I take also has it's side effects which at times are not pleasant.

Would I like to work? yes I would, so all of you that are bleating that the disabled should do menial jobs at least find me a post that I can do, do bear in mind there will have to be sleeping equipment there and the employer would have to be ok with me taking time off for appts as I see 3 different consultants, OTs, Physios etc.

I would also like to draw your attention to Callums List at calumslist.org/ there have been deaths which are attributed to this horrendous system.

calumslist.org/ sorry didn't tick the box

chandellina and others - does it matter whether the numbers of people drawing benefits has increased or decreased? Why should disabled people be bearing the brunt of the cuts? Have we totally lost all compassion as a society?

I thought I was well informed but have had my eyes opened and have been very disturbed by what I have read on some of the links, particularly mikesivier.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/mps-tell-their-own-atos-horror-stories/. I am glad that garlicblocs started the thread, my question to myself is 'What can I do about it?'

well said LoV

LaVolcanTue 29-Jan-13 22:43:56

chandellina and others - does it matter whether the numbers of people drawing benefits has increased or decreased? Why should disabled people be bearing the brunt of the cuts? Have we totally lost all compassion as a society

It deserved posting twice. Completely agree LaVolcan.

Hear hear LaVolcan

I didn't know about the black triangle/workshy thing, you couldn't make it up could you?

I am not going to read the thread, mainly as I want to vent and I am as angry as I do not need to risk apoplexy and or a stroke by reading the frankly ludicruse and very often disabelist crap earlier in the thread. been on MN long enough as others have to have read it, seen it, been there, got the T shirt, been to the film, just waiting for the box set to come out on dvd!

So two questions for all those that dispute the holacaust theory. Would you be happy to see your son or daughter marry and have children with a person with a physical disability, a learning disability, a mental health problem all declared up front and not hidden?

If I am honest I expect some of you to lie to that one, I am sure most will say shite like "If my baby was happy that would be all I want" But deep in your souls you would feel that they are making a mistake, am I right?

2nd question: If a pill or an injection were developed that cured all disabilities of all kinds, what would you think about those people who refused to have it. Would they be selfish, or lazy, deluded even. if they decided to stay impaired would you feel it reasonable to say "Right then you had your chance you could have been like the majority, you could have had all the advantages of being able bodied but you have chosen to stay as you are, so thats your choice but you having made that choice forfeit all help in every form from the state. No housing, no benefit apart from the standard, no mobility cars, no blue badges" You want to be disabled then you get on with it."

See I think were back to fear, fear of things that most norms just cannot comprehend, they don't like difference it makes them uneasy. Yet when challenged on it they will say "Oh yes we feel sorry for them, we must help them, as long as they are quiet and docile and grateful and willing to accept that they are 2nd class citizens.

Lastly in this rant, I draw a simple comparison with the holocaust, in towns and cities in each and every burgh and council authority plans are being drawn up as to how to implement self directed payment, personalisation, self directed support are three names it goes by. iN glasgow for one, people are being pressurised in to group homes and giving up their own individual houses and tenancies because it is cheaper to house them together rather than put the support packages in place. People are being detained in mental health units as a result of Glasgow city council being unable to organise care packages. Families of adults with Learning Disabilities in Glasgow are forced to take out power of attorney orders in a bid to prevent Glasgow city council of taking them out. Why would the council want those orders, to force people from their homes at the slightest sign of any inconvenient behaviour, or problematic neighbour issues.Not to mention the fact that it costs them less if they do not have to support people in the community.That is one city, one council, each council will be diffrent some better some worse. How long then before a council or a city looks at it's budget and says "Hay what if we house everyone with needs together. They could have their own rooms, 24/7 support, all the facilities that we think they might want, oh and lets call it something like Little Warsaw after the ghetto"

I don't see how disabled people ARE baring the brunt of the cuts. It's not like they are the only ones suffering here. Do you think they should bare none of it?

Leithlurker, councils need to make cuts. It's a matter of pragmatism rather than idealism. Yes disabled people could get more, we all could. But we don't live in a perfect world. The current cuts are a million miles away from the holocaust. And yet if there was a pill that cured disabilities, I would expect disabled people to take it!

And your daughter Harriet does she get to marry a crip?

If she wants to, sure. Why do you ask?

Harriet35Wed 30-Jan-13 00:47:11

I don't want to see how disabled people ARE baring the brunt of the cuts. It's not like they are the only ones suffering here. Do you think they should bare none of it?

There you go. Corrected for you.

You really think that disabled people are baring the entire brunt of the cuts?

Well forgive me Harriet but it looks to me as though the disabled are bearing the brunt of the cuts. Just looking at the rate of DLA the maximum that someone can be awarded is £131.50 a week or it might be as little as 20.55? Does it need spelling out that someone on an income of £50K, £100K per annum is not going to feel that loss in the same way?

It's a matter of pragmatism rather than idealism. Yes disabled people could get more, we all could. But we don't live in a perfect world.

Thank God some of us do have idealism. No, it's not a matter of pragmatism, it's a matter of choices. We needn't be spending money on a senseless war which Tony Blair took us into, we could start asking Corporations such as Amazon to pay their dues, for a couple of starters.

And yet if there was a pill that cured disabilities, I would expect disabled people to take it! You espouse a view like that and yet you believe we are a million miles away from the holocaust?

And yet if there was a pill that cured disabilities, I would expect disabled people to take it!

Yes i believe Goebbals expected the same!

"And yet if there was a pill that cured disabilities, I would expect disabled people to take it!"

Dear fucking god..

Why would you not expect disabled people to take it? It's a ridiculous argument anyway, but if theoritically such a pill existed, surely disabled people would want to take it?