Yesterday was Holocaust Memorial Day. I'm afraid we're heading that way again.

[garlicblocks]

"It is estimated that close to 250,000 disabled people were murdered under the Nazi regime. Persecution of people with disabilities began in 1933, but mass murder commenced in 1939.

"The organised killing of disabled children began in August 1939 ... All children under the age of three who were suffering from conditions such as Down?s syndrome, hydrocephaly, cerebral palsy or ?suspected idiocy?, were targeted. A panel of medical experts were required to give their approval for the ?euthanasia? of each child. In the first few months of the program this was usually achieved either by lethal injection or by starving the child to death. Many parents were unaware of the fate of their children, instead being told that they were being sent for improved care.

"The first experimental gassings took place at the killing centre in Brandenberg and thousands of disabled patients were killed in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms. Now that a fast and effective method of mass-murder had been developed it could of course be used to exterminate gays, Gypsies, political opponents and of course over six million Jews.

"Worryingly, in 2012 in Great Britain, Geoffrey Clark, a local government candidate for the UK Independence Party in a by-election in Gravesham, Kent posted this on his website:

"Consider compulsory abortion when the foetus is detected as having Downs, Spina Bifida or similar syndrome which, if it is born, will render the child a burden on the state as well as on the family."

"Although UKIP suspended Clark?s party membership when this hit the news, it was too late to cancel his candidacy. He came second to the conservatives with almost 27% of the vote."

What can we do about escalating persecution of the disabled and otherwise 'unproductive' people in the UK? Are we heading back towards forced sterilisation and murder?

Precisely, MurderOfGoths.

' To be honest I think that mentioning it here, is right on the money. See, I hugely disagree

Because this is a discussion we've had at home, Dh and I

Not 'are we going to die in a gas furnace', but are we being naive to assume things will not get that far based on a beleif in humanity, wouldn;t that have been how the German people felt pre-holocaust?

They have been interesting discussions, as DH and I have studied it from very different angles.

I think it's WISE to question such things in fact, because if you don't... well yes.

And YYY to murderofgoths

LMAO at Dawndonna

My degree is RE and Philosophy; DH is deeply interested in history, especially wartime history. Ok so may MA studies are very different but heck, enjoyed it all especially ethics.

Wanna come over for dinner?

I've said before in this thread and I guess I'm just repeating myself now and should STFU....

But, it doesn't have to involve cattle cars and gas chambers. It could be clinics like Dignitas. It could be voluntary.

I think people will be coerced to "do the right thing" and make the "brave, dignified, unselfish" choice.

There may also be some element of that choice being made for those who are unable to make it for themselves.

'they love these kind of "arent the Tories eeeeevilll naazzis" threads.'

Sorry but hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I have a long history of working well with MN, but they know my feelings on their current work with UNUM: read about them and their history in the USA.

Rowan
Fair point. I did insult. I'd actually forgotten.

Peachy I'm on my way. Well I would be, but you know how it is, I'd have to organise care for dh and different care for the dcs and they don't like change and disruption to routine.........

One day, a bottle of red will go down well!

Ahh Unum. The company banned from working in so many US states. I believe they also have a history in Australia, and are banned in parts there too.

Can someone please tell me of the events that lead up the holocaust that they believe mirror what is happening now in the UK?

Nancy. There are plenty of history books available. However, as has been pointed out, the divisions created by the government propaganda machine, creating an underclass, eg. the deserving/undeserving poor. The scrounger/striver analogy. All of these go toward creating the conditions that created the holocaust. It would appear to be inevitable that somebody suffers, politically, in a recession, then it was the jews/gypsies/homosexuals/disabled. Now it is the supposedly feckless.

my knowledge of history is not too bad thanks - I wasn't looking for a book recommendation - rather somebody to offer a half-credible reason for the parallels being drawn.

You've had a stab at it Dawn, I disagree but thanks all the same.

Which bit do you disagree with? Are the media not creating an idea that the feckless / workshop / spongers / underclass are taking everyone's money. creating a real hatred towards minority groups the unemployed, disabled, single parents? Am I just imagining it?

The media and the government

...I disagree that we are on the slippery slope to another holocaust.

I think there's always been resentment towards people on benefits.

I don't think anyone's saying exactly the same will happen. But I think it's burying your head in the sand to think that were somehow safe . And you only have to listen to the venom from the government , media and the public to know there's little point having faith in humanity

"Yet it has been pointed out that the medical professionals dealing with some disabled people - GPs, Consultants, say they are not able to work, but some Government clerk decides otherwise. So are you saying that these people are lying? Is that disablist or not?"
I think a lot of GPs are still stuck in a 70s/80s mindset of people being unable to work if they have a bag back or whatever, such as the former miners who were signed off on the sick after the mines closed.

"Where are these jobs and employers rushing to offer work to the disabled? "
That's irrelevent. People shouldn't be classed as unable to work because there aren't enough jobs at the moment.

I think a lot of people have been off work for so long that their confidence is very low and they fear work, but if they actually got a job and got back into the swing of things, they would be far happier and more fulfilled.

I don't think it will happen again.
but the hatred towards disabled people is rising. the government have brain washed people into believing that disabled person = shirker.
it should ring alarm bells.
yet the prime minister should understand better that anyone what it is like to love and care for some one with a disability.... but has he said anything to stop this hatred, no.

Harriet it's not as simple as 'a bad back or whatever' people have a lot more serious and debilitating illnesses . People have actually died after being classed as fit for work. Have you watched any of the recent documentary that have been on?

And do you actually know any disabled people who have lost their DLA?

BBC article

"Nazi propaganda in the form of posters, news-reels and cinema films portrayed disabled people as "useless eaters" and people who had "lives unworthy of living". The propaganda stressed the high cost of supporting disabled people, and suggested that there was something unhealthy or even unnatural about society paying for this"

Nazi poster

Translation: 60,000 Reich marks. What this person suffering from is hereditary defects costs the People?s community during his lifetime. Comrade, that is your money too.

Another poster

Nazi propaganda slide contrasting how far 5.50 German Marks will go. The cost of feeding one person with a hereditary disease for one day is the same as it would cost to feed an entire family of healthy Germans.

From here
"Among the general public, the war effort's reallocation of resources also highlighted the divide between those who were healthy and able to contribute and survive unaided, and those with disabilities who could not. Thus, by the end of World War I, an implicit but palpable public perception of higher economic worth was attached to people without disabilities, and lesser worth was attributed to people with disabilities."

Note the repetition of the disabled taking money from the able bodied.

and to be fair, even if many could be supported back into work, (a) where's the support , and I mean real support and (b) do toy really think having a member of parliament stand and.call yoy a feckless no good workshy, scrounger spongers is the right way to go ?

You're welcome Nancy. Sorry you can't manage a more than credible explanation.

I don't think 'no, I do not believe we're heading for another holocaust' particularly needs any elaboration

garlic said...

During my school years, in the 1960s - 1970s, handicapped children were designated ineducable even if their handicaps were only physical. There were tucked away in institutions (where they were, for the most part, sedated) which is mainly why so many of my generation think "you didn't use to see all these disabled around." As others have remarked, a high proportion became institutionalised and are still in care facilities, although they tend to die young. The Warnock Report of 1978 finally got things changed.

one of my closest friends who i met in 1990 used to go to the same high school as me.
She was 2 years above me so we didnt really know each other that well while we actually were going to the same school.
She was and is absolutely brilliant at maths.
But the school took her out of maths lessons and put her in "special help" (thats what they called it)
Why? Because she has epilepsy. Now this was in the mid to late 80s so not that long ago.
Her daughter takes after her and is at uni doing a maths degree.

I want to say i fully support what Hecate and Garlic and others on here are saying. We are looking at the 10 to 15 yrs leading up to the holocaust and there are similarites.