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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel so upset regarding contact.

999 replies

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 26/01/2013 13:50

Some of you may know my backstory from the nature of my post. I namechanged a while ago and have been trying to put the past behind me and move forward with 5mo DD.
Me and my ex have a rather volatile relationship. He didn't want me to keep DD. since she has been born he hasn't provided physically or emotionally. He pays half the maintainence he should.
I tried to keep him seeing DD, him coming here, me there (2.5 hour drive). Supervised by me.
I don't want or agree with any child been taken away from their father but he is so inconsistent and to put it bluntly useless it had crossed my mind that it may be better if he goes away.
He has had a new girlfriend who seems to have taken priority since when I was 5 months pregnant.
It's now 22 days since any contact with him. He's ignored my attempts to send pictures and updates and is like to know if I am BU by thinking this is not acceptable and letting it upset me.
I'm a bit of a wreck today. I know this is AIBU but please try to be gentle.

OP posts:
MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 11:43

Not weeks- months (before Xmas)

OP posts:
flow4 · 11/02/2013 12:32

Hi Make, I have ummed and ahhhed about whether to post, but decided I might be useful, so I am posting. :) Just ignore me if I'm not!

I am almost 18 years down the line from where you are - my DS will be 18 this year. So, to start with the best news, one day you will look back on today, and it definitely won't eat you up and tie you in knots and make you feel sh*t, like it does right now. Instead, you will just feel regret - a sort of gentle sadness and a wish that things could have been different.

And you will have a nearly-grown-up daughter who has survived childhood without a dad. And you will have been able to give her everything she needed. Everything. :)

You've said several times that you don't understand why you feel so bad. My own answer was that it was about 'giving up the dream of a happy family'. When I got pregnant, I hoped for a 'happy ever after' - I think most of us do, since it's so ingrained in our culture - and when things went wrong, that dream died. It hurt a lot, and it made me very sad. I'd go so far as to say it was like a bereavement: I mourned the 'death' of the happy family life I'd hoped for for my child and myself. I recognised it, but it still took time, just like any bereavement takes time.

Even though I knew DS's dad was a b*stard who would never be any good for me, it took me a very, very, very long time to get wise to the fact that he would be no good as a father, either. I think this was basically because I loved DS so much that it made absolutely no logical sense to me that his dad wouldn't love him the same: DS was obviously entirely loveable, so of course his dad must love him, I thought - it must just be a matter of me 'fixing' something, or putting the right little something-or-other in place (though I didn't know what it was). That got me stuck into a long, complicated, painful and totally unsuccessful cycle: trying to arrange contact; applying for a contact order (me asking the court to make him see his son - I failed); taking my DS to see him; still taking him hundreds of miles to see him when he moved; me staying overnight in a big city so DS could stay with his dad; paying train fares (when DS was old enough to travel alone), etc...

Just to emphasise: court was not a solution for me. I applied for a contact order because I wanted DS to see his dad, and I wanted him to be able to rely on it. The court did not grant it. They told me no parent could be forced to see a child. They gave him a parental responsibility order because he asked for one (godness knows why; he's never made any kind of use of it) in the same 5 minutes that they declined the contact order and he said he was moving 150 miles away.

And do you know what? Over the years, although his dad made lots of noise about contact - and specifically about how I was stopping it because I wouldn't co-operate enough - he didn't actually make it happen. In 17 years, he has asked to see DS perhaps half a dozen times. Perhaps. :( Shock When DS was about 12, and old enough to travel by himself, I stopped doing the running - and contact fizzled out. When DS was about 14, the CSA finally caught up with his dad - who has never paid any maintenance - and he left the country to avoid it. He hasn't seen DS in 4 years, and is in email contact about once a year.

The headline for you is this: if your DD's dad wants to see her, he will make it happen. If he doesn't want to see her, you can't make it happen. Nothing you can do will ever be enough. Nothing. That is painful and upsetting, but I am afraid it is true. You will just tie yourself into years of upset if you keep trying. Please don't repeat my mistake.

However, I will add this... This is the bad new, maybe... Some people are advising you to cut him off and refuse all contact. But sadly, you can't do that. If your DD's dad chooses to apply for a contact order, he will get one; if he asks for contact, you will be expected to co-operate. Cutting him off totally is not an option.

This is one of the main reasons it is so stressful and upsetting for mums like us, IMO: we are locked into some kind of long-term relationship with someone who has treated us like sh*t. With any other kind of relationship, you can walk away and put it totally behind you: but if you have children, you can't walk away. That's really hard, and it is probably one of the main reasons you are so down.

So, what you have to do is develop resilience. You have to break free from him inside your head and emotionally - while still engaging with him regarding your daughter, if and when he engages positively with you - and only then. That's hard, but it's do-able.

It is very, very important for you to find ways of changing the ways you respond to him. You can't change his behaviour, but you can change your reactions to it. You can learn to detach - nothing he says to you or about you important, unless it positively supports your DD and you. You can learn how to recognise that when he (or his mum) tries to make you feel bad, this is their problem, not yours. You can learn to refuse to engage if they are not 'playing nicely'. You can learn to work out what your 'bottom line' is, and stick to it. You can learn to focus on what your DD needs, and what you need, and ignore anything he throws at you that does not meet your needs.

All this takes time, and needs support - which is why counselling and CBT are so useful - but you can do it. Then you will join the ranks of the incredibly strong and confident women, who have survived huge stress and difficulty, and are all the better for it, in the end!

What I have found is that I have a little strand of sadness and irritation - like a thread running through a woven scarf, maybe - that I accept is part of me, and am kind to, and pay attention to, but which does not drive me at all any more. :)

Maybe think of me as a message from your future Blush Grin... You are already moving forward - you have already applied for a course, which is fantastic! You will look back on this time in years to come, and feel proud of yourself for what you went through, and how you survived, and what you have achieved. I promise you will! You have the best motivation in the world - your DD and yourself! Grin

SoftKittyWarmKitty · 11/02/2013 12:36

OP, I'm on my phone at the moment so I'll respond more later but just wanted to query about him asking for her DOB. I don't want to overly concern you but does she have a passport? If not, can I just advise you apply for one for her and keep it in a safe place? My concern comes not from the fact that he doesn't know her DOB (which tbh doesn't surprise me) but from the fact he's asking for it in the first place. He has PR, so in theory could request a duplicate BC and apply for her passport. To be fair he seems to thick to think of it but if I were you I'd apply for your DDs passport ASAP yourself, before he does.

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 12:45

Flow- I cannot thank you enough for your post.
Kitty- I'm on it Smile

OP posts:
SoftKittyWarmKitty · 11/02/2013 12:51

I cross posted with Flow but have to say, what an amazing, inspirational lady. She writes with so much sense, empathy and understanding, which is so positive. My circumstances and the way I've felt over the past nearly seven years are very similar to Flow's but she is a good 11 years ahead of me. Flow, in 11 years' time when my DS turns 18, I hope I can look back and be just as proud of the way I've raised my DS as you are of the way you raised yours. I hope he has a lovely 18th birthday Smile.

flow4 · 11/02/2013 13:09

Thanks Kitty. Blush I don't want to misrepresent myself: it has not always been smooth going, some bits have been extremely hard, and my son is no angel (as anyone who frequents the Teen board will know)... But I guess my point is, when you have a newish baby and are just out of a broken relationship, you can get so caught up in grief and trying to make thing better and fix things...

But actually, you are not broken and your DC is not broken... And the love and energy and power you and your child have between you does not need a father - or anyone - who is not going to give more than he takes. :)

You'll be fine, Make, in the end. You'll be more than fine - you'll be fab!

littlemisssarcastic · 11/02/2013 13:20

OP, Am I correct in thinking that your xp has not seen your DD for 28 days now? And that a month has been the longest time he has failed to have contact with DD?
Is it also correct that he has never seen DD in a contact centre, but rather with you supervising?
And he has not been violent towards your DD, or you have no evidence to prove he has been violent?
Also your DD is 5 months old?

Ok, I have read your latest posts, and would like to point out a few things.

"He works 13 days with 1.5 days a weekend off every other weekend. He also gets one afternoon off per week: from 12.30.
So I would offer contact: 3pm-6pm on that afternoon off, with supervision (mum or contact centre)
The weekend off, Saturday or Sunday mutely agreed 3 hours supervised for 2 months."

"After the period of two months I'd like it to be unsupervised and I (my family) am willing to drive halfway to drop off and pick up.
Then after this we can mutually increase the hours, and once satisfied, she may go overnights and weekends.

This sounds ok to me, so long as he gives you a certain amount of notice as to which days/weekends he intends to see DD.

He may still let you down, but as other posters have explained, there's nothing you can do about that.

WRT court, I can virtually guarantee you that if you were to go to court with these proposals, they would agree, but it is very unlikely the court would agree to supervised access if your xp refused to be supervised. Also, why would a court agree to your mum supervising and not his mum?
Does your xp's parents pose a significant risk to your DD?

The way the court will see it is that there is no reason they can see that he cannot have unsupervised access.
Contact centres are not often used as a long term arrangements unless there is a very real risk of danger to a child, according to the court.
Contact centres do not usually offer you the days or times you want, although they do try to accommodate you, and they only offer between 1 and 3 hours of contact.

If there is no risk of danger to your DD, I think a court would refuse to order contact centre contact based on the fact that you don't feel your xp is capable of looking after DD to your satisfaction.

You say "I do not care if his mother brought up the queen, the fact remains that they have not seen her (grandparents) since before Christmas."

A court will not refuse your xp contact at his parents based on the fact that they haven't seen her since before xmas. They will more than likely see it that your xp is capable of looking after your DD unsupervised at his parents house for the contact times, unless his parents pose a real danger to your DD.

Just another reason to try to resolve this without the courts intervention imo.

FWIW, I think if you go down the court road, you will end up with a court order that pretty much gives your xp what he is asking.

Unless I have missed something, I cannot see a court agreeing to supervised access based on no violence, a month maximum of xp not seeing DD, and grandparents not supervising because they haven't seen DD since before xmas.

Don't even think about taking this to court OP.
Tell xp what you are prepared to offer, and wait to see what happens then. I certainly wouldn't be rushing to have someone completely unemotionally involved a judge decide when xp sees DD, where, and with whom present.

Out of interest, do you know why xp hasn't taken DD to see his parents since before xmas?

littlemisssarcastic · 11/02/2013 13:22

I'm sorry if that is not what you want to hear OP, but I really don't want you to jump from the frying pan into the fire IYSWIM by taking a matter to court that doesn't benefit you or your DD at all, yet greatly benefits your xp.

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 13:34

Flow your story amazes me.

He hasn't seen DD since Jan 5th. He hasn't taken DD to see his parents as he went against my wishes- the 3.5 out of 4 hours in a car which were not in the arrangements I ha agreed to. He also doesn't have unsupervised contact with DD as of yet as I do not feel he is capable as the times he sees her with me he doesn't/won't change a nappy, gets snappy when she is a messy eater and gives her back when she cries. The one time he did have her alone she was not IMO satisfactory looked after:
*he asked me to get her ready for bed when I left.

  • in the 5 hours I had gone, she had had no nappy changed, her baby gro and sleeping bag taken off as she was sick, but not replaced.
  • was in a travel cot in another room, both doors shut.
  • no heating on.
  • one blanket thin, in just a short sleeve vest.
  • hungry and tearful.

I felt as a mother this didn't fill me full of confidence having to give DD a whole bottle when I got back. He did not know how long I would be! And had sent messages saying she was fine. IMO she was not fine.
The line I keep getting is babies get upset they scream worries me. I have a very happy baby.
In fact when I did all the driving to his parents, I got stuck on very bad traffic once. When I did arrive, all he wanted to do is show her off to the family!!!! And his parents she needed a feed and a change and he wouldn't do either.
Obviously when she started crying- she was hastily passed back to me,
Who changed her while he socialised. Who then grabbed her off me too feed her whilst wandering around. I was trying to be on good terms with them so during the night he slept on the floor, in our room. She woke in the night, he got stroppy going for gods sake stupid baby shut up etc! And I ended up doing it.

But I have no evidence, and this can't can't continue. What I need is to know what I do?

OP posts:
littlemisssarcastic · 11/02/2013 15:02

I sympathise with you OP.
I am just trying to explain how a court will view this. It is not my own personal opinion.
The way the court will view this will not be the way you see things.
This is why I am strongly advising you not to go down the court process.
If your xp decides to take the matter to court, that is something you will have to deal with when or if that happens.
In the meantime, I would offer him the contact you have detailed. Email it to him in a matter of fact way and keep copies.

Try to refrain from putting anything in an email to him that a court would think is unreasonable, because if he does decide to take this matter to court, the court will want to see that you have not acted in a 'hostile' manner.

The court do not take kindly to 'hostile mothers' imvho.

catinboots · 11/02/2013 15:40

Hi make.

I agree with littlemiss.

The courts won't listen to he said she said. Or your version of events. They cannot take your word over his without evidence.

They will make a decision based on the facts and the request your XP has made.

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 15:57

Thank you for your sound advice Smile I can see your point entirely. I'm going to meet with my solicitor on Friday and hopefully that will help both parties to come to an agreement. Without court. What do you think?

OP posts:
WhereTheWildOnesSnow · 11/02/2013 16:59

Hi OP, I am in the middle stage of this now between you and Flow lol. My DD is 9 and her dad has never been a constant in her life, he goes through a couple of months where he will want fortnightly contact to no contact for months on end. In her whole life he has only had her overnight on his own twice and that was last year.

Even at her young age she sadly realises that she cannot rely on her real dad, luckily my DH has been a "father" to her for almost 9 years and he is there for her always. DD is not bothered with seeing her real dad, it doesn't upset her when he disappears.

As it stand the last time she saw him was 27th December, not even a phone call since, and he only lives a 10 minute drive away so not far to travel.

My DD is a happy, well balanced girl. Her dad being useless doesn't seem to have affected her, she know me and her step dad are there for her always.

I feel really sad reading your posts as you sound like you have been struggling and I takes me back to where I was all those years ago, as another poster said you cannot make someone be a father, all you can do is be the best mother you can and try to always put the child's best interests first. There is light at the end of the tunnel, I am very happily married now with DD and a DS and we are all the family she needs. Her father is the one who has missed out, so that's his loss.

Sorry it's so long but just wanted to give you hope and I got carried away!

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 17:12

The worst thing is we were two people who I thought loved each other very much.

OP posts:
MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 19:21

Just had a email asking if 'I can do X afternoon' it's more than 36 hours notice.
What do I do?

OP posts:
MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 19:25

And his parents.
See they are trying to make me send her alone to intimidate me ConfusedConfused

OP posts:
anonacfr · 11/02/2013 19:54

Don't send her alone. After everything you've written she can't be alone with him.

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 19:57

She can't.
I don't want them in my home it's my home, our home, our safe place.
Shall I meet them with my mum somewhere?

OP posts:
littlemisssarcastic · 11/02/2013 20:06

Does the day and time suit you?
If it does, and you are happy to do this, say yes.

Personally, I would make it clear that you are prepared to give it one more go, and explain that a father who dips in and out of a child's life is worse than a father who disappears for good and then if you want to, give your xp one more chance.

Of course this is only what I would do. No one can make the decision as to whether you are happy with this or not, but you.

I would meet them somewhere which is approx halfway from yours to theirs, and ask them to come halfway too.

Up to what suits you and dd.

anonacfr · 11/02/2013 20:08

If you feel you have to accommodate him then yes. Have your mum and dad with you as support, set a time and place (cafe, restaurant) and if it's not suitable for him then tough.
Good luck. Sad

Can you get any legal advice btw?

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 20:09

They want to come down here. Do I meet them with mum. I don't let her go alone do I? And I explain with my mum that if he sees her regularly on a regular basis with me we can review it and I am happy for her
To go for days?

OP posts:
anonacfr · 11/02/2013 20:10

Make sure everything is on your terms. You have to protect yourself and of course your DD. she's an innocent baby, she has her routine and it comes before his stupid mind games.

anonacfr · 11/02/2013 20:15

Don't let them come anywhere near your house!
If they're coming to you go for a public place- if you feel they will try to intimidate you and your mum bring your dad too.

Don't talk about future contact! Let him talk first- if he mentions it say you want a proper arrangement for supervised contact where you live (she's little and can't travel too much yet). She's not a toy for him to play with when he feels like it! Don't talk about reviewing anything until there's been more contact and it's all gone well.
Just stay as non-committal as possible. You don't want to stop contact but you need to make sure he's genuine and it's not all mind games.

Temember what he's put you through, he's not a nice person and you don't owe him anything.

MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong · 11/02/2013 20:39

I know it's a game a stupid game at my daughters expense

OP posts:
GregBishopsBottomBitch · 11/02/2013 20:48

Your the mum, the RP, you make the rules, what you say goes, if they dont like it, then they can only blame themselves.

I would get this official, so he cant play silly twunts.