to think this 'diet' is an eating disorder

[BlackMaryJanes]

I'm dieting the old fashioned way - exercise and reducing calories to about 1800.

My friend recently told me about a diet she's thinking about doing called "The Alternative Day Diet". In this diet, you eat 400 cals one day, then you're allowed to eat whatever you like the next day, then back to 400 cals the next day, then eat whatever you like for a day, etc.

I've done some research on this seemingly popular diet. Apparently it switches on a 'skinny gene' which keeps your metabolism in top condition, burning calories. It also has other claimed health benefits such as - making you live longer (there was a Horizon documentary on the BBC backing this up). The internet is full of gleeming reviews.

But surely this pattern of eating is unsustainable and encourages disordered thinking? I feel a bit concerned for my friend. When she latches onto an idea she tends to go hardcore.

Sorry - that was a genuine question - what is the point?

To debate the diet. I didn't think debate was appropriate in the general 5:2 thread as that seems to be for support.

Can you actually tell us what you want to get out of this thread, BMJ? You obviously have an issue, and it seems to have stopped being about your friend now.

If you tell us what you want, we can help you.

OP,

what do you actually want?

x post BIWI

Did you know that big cats in captivity are usually fasted one or two days a week?

Perhaps it depends whether you're more of a herbivore or a carnivore what diet will suit you - could be that if you like low-carb then doing 5:2 as well is good but if you're a macrobiotic grazer it isn't.

I'm trying 5:2 because when you're only 5'1" calorie counting is horrible.

Debate doesn't mean reiterating the untruth that it's a starve/binge diet several times and completely failing to acknowledge people who do answer your other, more reasonable, questions.

Thinking about it, it's interesting that you naturally see the 5:2 in terms of starve/binge, OP. I agree the publicity slightly sets it up like that, but truly, I think part of it is you projecting. Because that's not how I saw it when I saw the Horizon doc. I thought all kinds of things about control over appetite, living more naturally, returning to eating more like I did when I was thin... but bingeing and starving no, because I have never had that guilt/sainthood relationship with my food. I need to lose weight because I got into over-eating habits for a few years, rather than because I am a perpetual dieter who always loses/puts it back on IYSWIM.

youre probably hungry because you are not eating enough while you are BF, it might be better for you to stick to a healthy lower fat diet as and when you are hungry than counting calories, as thats obviously not working for you if you are still hungry

My kids are 2 and 13 months. I'm BFing the 13 months old 3 times a day. He's a big fella with a hearty appetite (hmmmm wonder where he gets that from).

what do you actually want?

At the moment I'd like:

• To know which book I should buy to read more about this.
• Reassurance that I won't go crazy on the 'feast' days. After depriving myself for so long, I fear I'll go crazy which apparently (as I've found out on this thread) isn't inline with the diet.
• To understand the science behind the 'skinny gene' thing. Can someone explain it? If the skinny gene is bullshit then this is just a calorie-restriction diet.

Also I have a stupid question, but a question nonetheless:

If this diet is not recommended for breastfeeders yet this diet is 'how our ancestors ate' , didn't our ancestors breastfeed?

One thing the 5:2 pattern has done for me is to make me feel absolutely fine with being hungry for a while. I had not felt proper hunger for years and years and when I did, I felt 'wrong' somehow. But actually it's all right to be hungry, it passes generally, and just because I have money and access to Greggs doesn't mean I have to eat NOW if that makes sense.
But if you feel hungry all the time on 1800 cals, that doesn't seem right, if it's making you miserable.

OP I've eaten in a disordered starve/binge cycle for years and it is nothing like this diet.

Plus, eating disorders aren't just about the eating patterns, they are about the mental and emotional stuff driving the patterns.

Considering it again, I'd find your diet more triggering because it involves constant daily calorie monitoring, whereas on alternate day or 5/2 you don't have to think about it on "binge" days. People who are prone to going nuts on several thousand calories on a non-fasting day probably have some sort of food issue already. A lot of overweight people don't have food issues, they just overindulge a bit on all the readily available food and drink we have on a consistent basis until their weight has crept up. These people should have no problem eating a sensible amount on non-fast days without strictly calorie counting.

I think that all this 'how our ancestors ate' stuff is rather misguided. Our ancestors died very young and lived very different lives to us.They weren't living in some kind of amazing health utopia.

People who are prone to going nuts on several thousand calories on a non-fasting day probably have some sort of food issue already

Yup I suspect that's my friend - and me! But unlike her, I'm very reluctant to allow myself to go down that path.

Reassurance that I won't go crazy on the 'feast' days. After depriving myself for so long, I fear I'll go crazy which apparently (as I've found out on this thread) isn't inline with the diet

No one can reassure you this!

Have you experience disordered eating in the past?

Then BMJ post of 12:49, you've answered your own question. If you have a food issue, you may wish to seek other ways to manage your weight.

Advisable to do so even

OP

The Michael Mosely book is probably the best, though as someone said it duplicates everything that was in the Horizon prog and doesn't add a lot except about ten recipes.

I think the first day on 500 cals is quite hard, the next time is easier, and thereafter for me it has been easy, surprisingly easy. I try to keep 100 cals for before bedtime so I don't go to bed hungry. Fizzy water and herbal tea throughout the day (I add a dash of orange bitters to water to make it taste better, tip from old bartending job) and refill my glass as soon as I finish so it's there to sip all the time.

The other 5 days are interesting because firstly you don't get the cravings for junk food (or at least I don't) but if you're out and fancy a slice of cake, there is no guilt necessary. I find I don't overeat on those days, and I am conscious of trying to eat more healthily...it's just happened.

curryeater I'm taking 50mg of sertraline a day (for anxiety/panic attacks) have been doing 5:2 since last August. Haven't notice any problems with the ADs.

I think that all this 'how our ancestors ate' stuff is rather misguided. Our ancestors died very young and lived very different lives to us.They weren't living in some kind of amazing health utopia.

Hmmm good point. Everyone seems to have missed this.

Although presumably they'll argue that dying young had nothing to do with diet.

why do you want to buy the book if you are so against this diet?

i also think you should avoid it completely if you think you have food issues

im also boggled as to why you havent taken any of the good advice offered to you

How is eating 1800 calories a day 'depriving' yourself? The language that you use to talk about food is, IMVHO, actually quite worrying, as it is all so emotive.

What were your eating patterns like before you were pregnant? Do have an eating disorder yourself? What kind of relationship do you have with food would you say?

And, to ask another question, what are you eating and drinking every day, to make up those 1800 calories?

Have you experience disordered eating in the past?

Over-eating for sure. Yet most women I know, have also done this.

I think that all this 'how our ancestors ate' stuff is rather misguided. Our ancestors died very young and lived very different lives to us.They weren't living in some kind of amazing health utopia.

Hear hear. I am a confirmed "palaeo" dieter because it works and I don't care why, but there is something very ante-diluvian about this. Our hunter-gathering ancestors certainly weren't eating anything that bears any resemblance whatsoever to the domestic animals we eat today. Or even most of the plants, really. And given that we're talking about hundreds of thousands of years and most of the earth's surface, they wouldn't all have been eating the same diet as each other anyway.

I've also been breastfeeding the whole time I've been doing it (though the baby is 19 months old now).

If this diet is not recommended for breastfeeders yet this diet is 'how our ancestors ate' , didn't our ancestors breastfeed?

Perhaps they didn't do it whilst they were BFing?

I certainly don't 'binge' on the eating days. I have a balanced diet.

And I don't 'starve' on the fast days.

I don't feel I'm denying myself. I'm not preoccupied by food.

I haven't heard about a 'skinny gene'. My understanding is that there is a hormone associated with ageing and that this isn't as prevalent in people who practice intermittent fasting and that enables them to live for longer/not age as quickly.

As far as the weight loss goes, I think you just lose the desire to 'binge' and eat unhealthily. It focuses you on what you are eating and gets your appetite under control.

When I first started it, I found that I thought about food constantly on my fast days. That lasted for 2 weeks and now I have to remind myself to eat. I eat healthily anyway, so it was easy to eat healthily on the eating days.