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AIBU?

to think this 'diet' is an eating disorder

300 replies

BlackMaryJanes · 25/01/2013 10:52

I'm dieting the old fashioned way - exercise and reducing calories to about 1800.

My friend recently told me about a diet she's thinking about doing called "The Alternative Day Diet". In this diet, you eat 400 cals one day, then you're allowed to eat whatever you like the next day, then back to 400 cals the next day, then eat whatever you like for a day, etc.

I've done some research on this seemingly popular diet. Apparently it switches on a 'skinny gene' which keeps your metabolism in top condition, burning calories. It also has other claimed health benefits such as - making you live longer (there was a Horizon documentary on the BBC backing this up). The internet is full of gleeming reviews.

But surely this pattern of eating is unsustainable and encourages disordered thinking? I feel a bit concerned for my friend. When she latches onto an idea she tends to go hardcore.

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SCOTCHandWRY · 25/01/2013 14:30

I do love a good diet bun-fight thread (make my bun a paleo, coconut, grain free one! Wink).

MBJ How is eating 1800 calories a day 'depriving' yourself?

It 'feels' that way, because I'm always hungry. It's bringing me down

Well, easy to see why you feel deprived and hungry on the diet you described - very processed, high carb and too little fat and protein. Honestly I dieted that way, "the proper way" ie low fat, low protien, high carb, high grain, for 20 years are got fatter and fatter and sicker and sicker (which is what is happening to all western populations!). Now I'm Paleo (7 years, started as low carb, developed into Paleo) and 6 stones Shock lighter, and a whole lot healthier.

Eating the way we do now as a society, chronically screws up our bodies insulin response, and as a knock on effect, leads to a lot of metabolic disorders and autoimmune disease, including, but not limited to -obesity, diabetes (type 1 and type 2), gallstones, gout, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, heart disease, basically all the "diseases eof civilisation", which were very rare or non-existent in pre-agricultural humans. Western eating habits are not natural or healthy.

WRT Grains - these are a very recent addition to the human diet, before agriculture, probably small amounts were gathered by people, but only after cooking was developed - raw grains are indigestible. Also the grain we mostly eat now (semi-dwarf wheat) is hideously unnatural and was developed only a few decades ago. It it a hexaploid variety (6 sets of genes), and contains a lot of novel compounds which seem to make it much more inflammatory than ancient grain species (which are not very good for us either!)

So why is 5:2 better than a "traditional" low fat diet? Probably because it improves you insulin response because on 2 days a week, if you are sticking to around 500 calories, you will be pumping out a lot less insulin and this is a good thing for your whole biochemical system. On 5 days a week you will be eating a decent amount of fat (much better for your insulin response than carbs).

A 7/7 low fat, low protein, high carb diet EVEN WITH EXACTLY the same amount of calories as the 5/2 diet (over the course of the week), will spike your insulin far more, leading to constant hunger (but more importantly it's potentially damaging your health).

Considering doing 5:2?
IMO, 5:2 in conjunction with paleo/primal eating sounds like a very natural way to eat, but I don't think I'd recommend anyone to do 5:2 with a "normal" junk food - you are not going to get the best results to your health, or your weight.
At the very least, 5:2 should be combined with eating as much fresh and cooked from scratch food as possible, even if you don't want to cut out carbs from grains and do the whole paleo thing (yet! Smile).

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Sallystyle · 25/01/2013 14:34

BlackMary.. I am 5ft 1 0r 2 and not very active these days.

I need to get on that. I used to exercise religiously, but a bout of depression stopped that.

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TroublesomeEx · 25/01/2013 14:51

Sikhs in the City haha Grin

Yes he was awesome.

I don't much fancy living to such a ripe old age myself, but he looked good on it!

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crypes · 25/01/2013 14:57

It has been said that following the Alternative Diet can be addictive. If losing weight in this way is addictive then it could be an eating disorder.

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TroublesomeEx · 25/01/2013 15:03

That's probably true of all ways of eating though, isn't it, crypes?

I think if you're predisposed to disordered thinking around eating then any focus on eating can be taken to an extreme. I don't think that would be applicable to the majority though.

And it depends whether you are doing it for vanity reasons or health reasons.

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MrsBethel · 25/01/2013 15:20

IMO 5:2 is a better alternative to ADF. It's more sustainable.

I think it works because there's always a 'light at the end of the tunnel' to focus on. Attempts to permanently 'diet' don't have that, so people can't keep them up. 'Crash' diets do, of course, but what happens afterwards - the weight piles back on.

The science isn't concrete, but it does suggest that occassionally being hungry is good for us. And since I've started I've overcome the need to snack all the time - I think my body's blood-sugar-regulation-system is working a bit better. Decent studies are underway, so hopefully we'll know a bit more soon.

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MrsBethel · 25/01/2013 15:27

Thinking about it, I'd say constantly needing to shovel snacks down your throat in order to keep going is the eating disorder.

People doing 5:2 or in the midst of Ramadam are in control and (our best guess is) they are doing their bodies a favour.

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BlackMaryJanes · 25/01/2013 15:48

I think it works because there's always a 'light at the end of the tunnel' to focus on. Attempts to permanently 'diet' don't have that, so people can't keep them up.

Very true, and this appeals to me.

I'm tempted to give 5:2 a go, but as others have said, no one knows how it will work in conjunction with breastfeeding.

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ubik · 25/01/2013 15:51

MrsBethel- I have been 5:2 for 6 months and have noticed I no longer have a craving for a snack midmornibg nor at the classic 3/4pm.

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TalkinPeace2 · 25/01/2013 16:01

BlackmaryJames
There are several people on the 5:2 threads on weightloss who are breastfeeding and fasting successfully - Literarygeek for one.

I love this Way of Eating.
I fast on a Monday and a Thursday. Weekends are totally relaxed. Eat , drink and be merry.
I lost a stone last term and have just finished losing the half stone I allowed myself to put on over Christmas.

The snack food industry are going to get pretty pissed off as more people cotton onto this though - it will be like the 1960's before they had invented snacking.

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BlackMaryJanes · 25/01/2013 16:03

TalkinPeace2 that's great! How old is her nursling?

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TalkinPeace2 · 25/01/2013 16:07

OP
I've just put a call out on the big thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/big_slim_whatever_weight_loss_club/1663998-5-2-Diet-Thread-Perfect-number-10?msgid=36837782#36837782
for those who are breastfeeding to let you know how it works for them ...

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GreenEggsAndNichts · 25/01/2013 16:56

I know you're been inundated but I thought I'd chime in: I've been doing this since last August when Dr Mosley did his Horizon special. It's easily sustainable for me. It is much easier than daily calorie counting for me. Daily calorie counting means difficulty when going out to eat (not impossible of course) and is the more short-term diet, imo.

I don't binge on eating days. I eat a normal amount of calories, which is refreshing to be able to do after struggling to eat low-cal previously. If I overdo it one day, I know I can have a fast day the next day easily enough.

I'm hardly starving myself on a fast day. I still eat 500 calories, and I've got plenty of fat reserves laid in. My first few fasts were tough but I'd almost say it was more a struggle to break from the mentality that I should/could be snacking. Now, they're very easy, and I can do anything physically on a fast day that I could do a normal one.

ADF is pretty hardcore. 5:2 is much much easier.

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SlowLooseChippings · 25/01/2013 17:38

Skimmed the thread but thought I'd chip in to say: if you're hungry on 1800 cals, it's because you are eating the wrong types of foods. Combine it with low-carbing and lose the fear of fat, and you'll be fine. Basically: low fat foods usually have sugar added instead to make up for the taste. However, sugar is addictive and leads to cravings, but fat makes you feel more full. Do you remember that ad for a chocolate bar which was "so light it doesn't fill you up so you can still eat your lunch"? Yeah, that was the sugar. Leaves you wanting more.

Ditch the toast and cereal, have some eggs and bacon. Sauté a head of green cabbage in butter and oil instead of the low-cal spray. Keep track on MyFitnessPal and you'll be surprised.

I've been low-carbing since the beginning of January. I've lost 4kgs so far, the first 2.5kgs fell off but the last 1.5 has been a slower steady decrease. The first week was hell. I wanted cake, I wanted chocolate so badly. But my appetite has taken a nosedive since (apart from the week of AF, which was difficult but it always is). I set my limit at 1800 because I'm always hungry. I've struggled to make 1500 this week, with fairly decent meals too: e.g. yesterday I had 3 scrambled eggs with creme fraiche for breakfast, 2 helpings of cauliflower soup for lunch (with a spoon of double cream), and dinner was 3 lamb chops, cabbage as above with garlic and oregano, and steamed asparagus.

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TalkinPeace2 · 25/01/2013 17:42

Whereas the joy of 5:2 is that five days a week I can eat any type of food I like. No restrictions at all.

Yesterday was two scrambled eggs for tea and a pot of vegetable soup for supper.

Today was ham cheese and Branston sandwich and a banana for lunch
and Manhattan cocktail now, soon to be followed by Pizza and red wine for dinner.

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FlouncingMintyy · 25/01/2013 17:51

I've been doing 5:2 since 1st September and my appetite has definitely decreased. Today is one of my eating days and all I have had (and fancied really) is a piece of french bread with ham and avocado (plus butter and little mustard mayo, don't have to worry about not having those!) and some tea and two coffees. I am not hungry now but tonight I will eat a spicey bean burger with chips and salad with dressing and coleslaw with my dc before going out and drinking no doubt 3 large glasses of wine. Yesterday (fasting) I had a Pret A Manger soup for lunch and some home made vegetable chilli with a small spoonful of rice for dinner. Wasn't hungry! Only for about 10 minutes before I ate the soup.

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BeanJuice · 25/01/2013 17:52

I will never understand why people don't just eat a decent, healthy diet and exercise regularly [bgrin]

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MadBusLady · 25/01/2013 17:53

Cor, why don't I MN while sipping a Manhattan?

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MadBusLady · 25/01/2013 17:56

Some of us got too fat, Bean. Thin people are very fond of saying "Surely all you have to do is..." I know, I used to be one of 'em. [bblush]

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fourfingerkitkat · 25/01/2013 18:21

Not sure if this has been mentioned but for those interested the book is in Tesco for only £2.95. I went to buy it off Amazon after reading the webchat but saved a quid in the supermarket...

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curiousuze · 25/01/2013 18:26

I'm with flowerface - bring on the gin, oysters and brawn!

BIWI did you write this book? You seem very invested in it...

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BIWI · 25/01/2013 20:43

Me?! Grin

No. If I was going to be writing a book it would be about low carbing.

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TalkinPeace2 · 25/01/2013 21:23

Spat my coffee at the idea of Biwi being MM
he's a toast man.

Am so pleased that we have been able to cheer up OP

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BlackMaryJanes · 25/01/2013 23:29

Ok guys I'm going to give this 5:2 diet a go, starting in the morning. But can you answer two questions please:

  1. Can the fast days be spread out? For example, Saturday and Tuesday?


  1. I breastfeed my 13 months old 3 times a day. Will fasting effect this in any way?


Thanks people!
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literarygeek · 25/01/2013 23:54

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