Mass Immigration, scare mongering??

[Flickstix]

Am I being unreasonable to think it is a problem or am I just falling prey to media propaganda? The whole EU debate seems to have highlighted it but I would like to understand it better.

What a daft thing you are saying as well. I'm in software engineering and no one hires 8 year olds to sit in front of computers and design software. But fact is people who are educated are also competing for jobs against foreigners. My friends in finance are facing the same. All I am saying is that we are now competing in a global economy. Simply controlling immigration numbers is not going to save UK jobs.

I mean foreigners living in their own country. In my industry it's mostly India. Company will not think twice firing UK workers and move the jobs to india.

very surprised at some posts here... always thought that you had to pay NI for at least 2 years in the UK to be entitled to any benefits.
On the other hand, if your fellow Pole is paying the same NI and income tax as you, why shouldn't they get the perks, too? The other side of that are the non-doms - no tax but if you want any services you have to pay. Have no problem with that.
If freedom of circulation within the EU is curtailed the 900,000 Brits living in the Costas and having their hips replaced at no cost to the NHS might have to be repatriated
I'm not overly worried at mass migration - I think that people will go where jobs are and where economies are thriving. With uni fees of £9k a year the UK is not looking like the best place to raise a kid on low wages. If uni fees rise with inflation it might work out cheaper to send my 2yo to an American college

Good post Tiger

It is often easier to blame others (immigrants in this case) than look at what you are doing wrong or where you could improve. Britain is more likely to fail in a globalised economy, and not because of cheap labour or immigration, but mostly because of flaws in the education system and styles of parenting.

While visiting British state schools I have noticed that children are given less homework than their peers in European countries (where children would normally spend 2 to 3 hours a day doing homework).

Another big problem is the way that languages are taught in this country. Children are mostly taught basic phrases that they would need if they went on holiday to France, Spain or Germany, but with that amount of second/third language they would struggle to work in a job where multiple languages are needed (this is a requirement for more and more jobs, as companies open multiple offices around the globe). Today I've seen a mother on MN complaining about her four year old learning too much French at an English school. That, I can not comprehend.

Third big problem lies within teachers' inability to interest children in science, maths, IT, geography and history. Instead of encouraging children to be scientists, IT programmers, doctors, lawyers, dentists, economists, historians, politicians, children are encouraged to be creative and artsy and dream about being in a media business or doing Gaga degrees.

There is also a lack of imposition of a hard working culture to children from a young age. What you call "pushy parenting", we call "parenting". Children not only do lots of homework, compete in olympiads, but often (up to 5 times a week) attend art, music, sport school, where they have to do extra homework, take exams yearly and are expected to give performances and attend competitions. I find that in Britain there is this fear of criticising children (we all probably heard about children getting medals even if thy came last).

don't the Brits in Spain have private healthcare or have to take out insurance. I don't know - genuine question?

Good post Tiger. My grandparents lived in that neck of the woods and my parents used to drive through your town in the 70's as it was on route to A1 London I think?.

alemci, almost always NHS pics up the bill for their treatment.

Yamabuki
I think that people will go where jobs are and where economies are thriving.
I have no problem with that, it's a good thing and something that has brought benefits to the UK for many years.
But looking at the social and economic conditions in the two 'new' countries, it is clear that families will be attracted to the UK even if they are unable/unwilling to find work, simply because the social and medical support here are so much better. They might have to wait months to qualify, but they will still be better for than being destitute at home.
If I was in Romania now and couldn't feed my family, I would be champing at the bit to bring them to Britain.

alemci - you can get free healthcare within the EU with your little blue healthcard. Last time we were on holiday we had to take DD to A&E, we only had to flash the card and she was seen like everybody else. As said by others I doubt this gets recharged as no record was made of our name or details.
fluffy - Finland comes tops at PISA ratings and they have done away with homework. I must say I agree with that - school work can be done in school and non-school time should be used for other things IMO.

If you see a doctor in Spain, you have to pay for your own interpreter. My doctor offers interpreters in a couple of hundred different languages for free. I have a friend who speaks an unusual foreign language and is regularly called in to sit in and translate at appointments. £80 per hour + vat. Minimum call of 2 hours, plus travelling time.

Sally, there are underlying problems of people (especially Roma community) not being able to feed their families. Most of them have no choice but to leave for another countries. Roma community is often used as a scapegoat for all the problems that exist in Romania and other Eastern European countries. There is very little done to help them integrate into the society and they are being openly discriminated by politicians and general public. It is very hard to be of a Roma community and find legal work in Eastern Europe and support your family. Many children live in poverty, pushed to the poorest parts of towns and cities. Children start working at an early age, therefore missing the opportunity of going to school. As they have no choice.

Someone asked who had actually been affected by immigration, well I applied for my child to enter the lovely little school very close by for reception. Until a few years ago this would have been no problem, now that school in the past few years has changed to about 80% immigrants. He didn't get a place, not too bothered as we got another good school further away an another village we have to drive to. But, yes I'd say he missed out on first choice school because of the large amount of immigrants who had recently moved to that area. Some areas are very much harder hit by immigration that others, doesn't have to be all doom and gloom, many of the immigrants work hard and just want a better life for their families.

Fluffy.
I couldn't blame anyone in those circumstances for wanting to come here. It is quite understandable.

Would just like pop in and to say well done to us all for having an immigration thread that hasn't descended into a bun fight

but then most of the expats have reasonable wealth and have bought their own properties in Spain. They don't expect to be housed for example and they put money into the Spanish economy as do many of the immigrants who come here. Many now struggle financially because of the exchange rate and falling property prices. I doubt if they receive any benefits in Spain.

Also if you went to the EU on holiday you would probably take out travel insurance anyway as well as your blue card. Well I would

They have to pay for translators as LayMizz has stated.

Also I don't think ex pats can just roll up and expect to be treated here on the NHS. I think they get turned away.

Well I'm an immigrant. I'm also a higher rate tax payer and occasional NHS user.

Because, until I speak, I'm indistinguishable from the native population, I sometimes sit at bus stops listening to the conversations about immigrants and how they are destroying the UK and wonder if it would be safe to open my mouth. This has got far, far worse under the coalition government.

Not sure anyone has answered my query. Geninue question BTW.

If a Romanian family came over to the UK next year with three children would they have to prove they had somewhere to live and enough money behind them or would they report to the nearest council for emergency accomendation.

no, they would privately rent. possibly just a shithole room in a house/flat share (mould on the walls, questionable gas safety, cash in hand). after a while they have enough deposit together to rent a place on heir own.

but more likely the higher earner of a family would come, share a room safe like mad and send some money home and only when able to rent a place on their own move their family over.

Slug, that must be horrible. My friend is from Eastern Europe. She has settled here, had children, she works, does voluntary work and is a model citizen. She got into a argument when some beer guzzling local let their dog off the leash in the park and it went for her young child. When she complained all she got was a mouthful of abuse about how she should fuck off back to her own country. I know which one I'd rather fuck off. On the other hand my hijab wearing Asian British friend has been shouted at, had her scarf pulled off by some Eastern Europeans telling her to go back to her own country. Weird, scary old world out there.

My mum, an immigrant herself, thinks the current levels are a big problem

Just had Shelter charity knock at the door. Definitely a problem with housing here. Sensible to sort out those in need here first rather than letting even more people come who are not well off.

So what if they literally had a couple of £100's. Looking at this thread I think the government need to step in here and tighten up the rules. What stops someone with a challenging illness to come here with little means of support.

Having been to Romania a few times - they cannot wait for the boarders to open (and who can blame them!).

The reason I am asking is that a friend recently went to the local hospital and was turned away as they were too busy and had closed their doors. She had a car and went to the next nearest hospital. Having spent some time in my local hospital when my DS was ill last year I saw just the pressure the NHS is under. The person in front of me at Reception could speak very little English. He then started kicking off and the A&E reception cleared in a flash. Security were called and he was carted off but A&E's are literally like a war zone now...

It is not immigrants who are destroying the UK. it is is politicians with a lack of balls who do nothing to review or restructure immigration criteria.
If anyone claims asylum in this country then we should consider every case fairly. While the case is being investigated, the applicants should be detained within a secure area (like they do in Australia). Too many people are being allowed leave to remain in the uk, and with the (non) speedy application procedure, they can eventually claim residency because they have been in the country for so many years, have settled and had children.

Lay I agree with you. A relative was an Immgration Officer at Heathrow many years ago and he told us that whilst Immgration did what they could to stop illegals what tended to happen was the person trying to get in (often a relative - typically male) used whoever they knew here to meet them when their plane landed. Immgration would stop them, the person here would call their local MP/councillor etc and they would be given temp leave until invesigations were complete.

Because the Immgration office was so behind these people just disappeared.....

That was 15 years ago. God knows what it is like now.

To answer your question maisiejoe, the local authority would find accomodation for the family from Romania. Added to which, once the benefits have been set up, including child allowance they will be paid into the bank account of the parent, and the child benefit continues to be paid regardless of whether the child resides in the uk. There are no cross checks done to see that they are attending school etc in this country.