to speak to my boss about colleague abusing flexible working

[hatgirl]

argh... let me say first of all I am not a clock watcher, I work in a stressful job and people frequently work over their hours and there is a general agreement that a few minutes here or there or a slightly longer lunch occasionally is more than deserved pay back. We are a good, supportive team and there is pretty much no bad feeling other than the occasional niggle which is always resolved openly and professionally (yey for us!)

Essentially we are very much trusted by our manger who knows how hard we all work and various members of staff have different flexible working patterns in place which works well.

Myself and another colleague have recently started working 'compressed hours' essentially we work 10 days worth of hours over 9 days and have the 10th day off. For this to work we take shorter lunches, and work an extra bit at the start and end of each day... or at least I do, my colleague is working normal hours but still taking the 10th day off. At first I thought she didn't understand the system (I requested it first and she piggybacked her own request on the back of mine) so had a chat with her about it explaining the system again.

A few months down the line and she is still basically taking the piss. She is close to retirement and was recently refused voluntary redundancy - she is annoyed with the organisation and when I have reiterated to her the importance of us doing 10 days over 9 (again this is not done in a horrible way just in a general discussion way)she basically laughs at me and says that the organisation owes her after years of service (which is probably a fair point but doesn't change the fact that she is getting a paid day off every 2 weeks).

I'm now in two minds whether or not to now go to my manager as I am getting nowhere discussing with her directly, or if I should just wind my neck in and let her get on with it after all it doesn't exactly directly impact on me.

My boss will come down on her like a ton of bricks as him trusting us not to abuse flexible working is a big thing when he could be a complete arse about it if he wanted to be and he will be really disappointed that she is doing this. I actually really like my colleague and don't want her to get into trouble but a) her wages come out of public money

and

b) I am absolutely shattered doing the longer days (a lot of this is also because I have a longish commute - she lives 10 mins away from work) but value the day off in return and don't feel it fair she is getting the same benefit without putting in the work - also other colleagues not formally doing compressed hours are working the same hours if not more than her and are not getting a day off at all!

As much as I like her I just think her attitude on this issue stinks.

Would I be unreasonable in having a word with my boss and creating bad feeling in the team?

Or am I being petty and it is my bosses job to notice this and sort it out? Its literally as little as coming in 10 mins late, taking an extra 30 mins for lunch and leaving 10 mins early but it all adds up to the extra 50 minutes we work extra each day to get the 10th day off.

And have you actually read and interpreted that crappy article? I worked at home due to the snow here on Monday and Tuesday. I was logged on and working from 7am to 6pm both days. Had I struggled out to travel it would've been 10.30am before I reached my office. What a waste of time and money that would've been. Yup us civil servants are such lazy bastards.

The problem is that she may mess it up for you and anyone else who want to work 10 days compressed into 9.

Her behavior is unacceptable - in many ways she is stealing unearned money from the company and lying to them.

By saying nothing you are silently supporting her and saying it's OK.

Tell her you see it as fraud and that you will have to let boss know if it continues. Tell her you are not happy about it. Then give it a week and report her if needs be.

Is there anyway of highlighting the general issue without being direct and pointing the finger? Can you just make little comments where appropriate? To both boss and her.

There appear to be 2 camps here -

One who like rules and think you should sit at your desk to the required hours regardless

The other who trust people to do what they are paid for well and the hours not so important.

However this woman sounss lile a pain who is neither amazingly efficient nor doing her hours. People lile that are irritating but there is little you can do without making it worse for yourself - you need to get over it for your own sake or it will drive you potty.

Other than the IT stuff she is brilliant at her job and has so much valuable experience which is the reason she was turned down for VR

Frankly, OP, just roll your neck in. Your manager knows what she is doing and values your colleague's experience. (it might also have been cheaper to keep her on than give VR)

He probably knows that she is working fewer hours, but the main thing is, she is getting her work done and gets along well with her colleagues (except you). There is probably an unspoken understanding that she will get one day off every two weeks as she was denied VR, as long as she completes her weekly workload. It is none of your business.

If you want to do anything regarding 'protecting yourself' follow the advice of the HR person who made a brilliant post.

Surely if you sign a contract to work a minimum number of weeks over a specified timespan, then that's the minimum that you work?

I once to had to sack a whole Out of Hours shift (well, they resigned the day if their disciplinary hearing to try and avoid actually being sacked) for clocking off early each shift. The evidence (CCTV) clearly showed them finishing early (about an hour) each shift.

Their colleagues working other shifts were furious and no one thought it was acceptable behaviour. They were trusted to work out of hours unsupervised and they abused that trust.

OP, your colleague is taking the piss. Please report as eventually someone else will and you will find it very hard to explain why you hadn't raised the issue beforehand.

The IT stuff is another issue. Despite being good at other aspects of her role, she is not capable of carrying out some vital components of her JD. She needs to be properly trained and performance managed.

When people are being made redundant because of reductions in staffing due to drastic cost saving programmes, this type of situation is galling.

And tbh, if I had a choice between someone like her or you on my team, I would probably chose her.

Sorry to say this, but your posts come across as petty and clock-watching. And if the biggest skill you bring is your IT knowledge, it is quite honestly replaceable as people who know a bit of IT are not hard to find (and most organisations have an IT department anyway)

But someone like your colleague X, who is presumably brilliant at customer service is much harder to replace and worth their salt

So be prepared that if you continue down your righteous/petty path and create discord, you may have to find a new workplace.

You'd really rather have someone who took every opportunity to take time off, Flatbread? Do you really think that woman is working from home today, too?

Please report as eventually someone else will and you will find it very hard to explain why you hadn't raised the issue beforehand

No manager will expect OP to monitor her colleagues working hours. This is nonsense.

The only thing OP should do, is make sure her own hours are recorded and work deliverables signed off, in case anyone examines all flex staff.

She seems to have an unhealthy interest in her colleagues and I am just at the pettiness of some public sector employees. Maybe if these people actually had a demanding job, they wouldn't have time to jealously watch over others.

Flatbread, you're an idiot.

You'd really rather have someone who took every opportunity to take time off, Flatbread? Do you really think that woman is working from home today, too?

No, in my industry you have to be available 24/7. But we have created 'support roles' for some women with young children or for other valued employees who want to work limited hours or off-site for personal reasons.

It is ultimately a cost-benefit calculation of what skills/experience they bring vs. what they would cost to replace. As long as the work output is agreed-upon and delivered with high quality, the rest can be ignored to an extent.

I'm not sure I see it as being petty. Many types of work involve working to certain targets which are calculated and set to an achievable level person (e.g. filing 100 sets of records per hour to equal 750 sets over a 7.5 hr day).

If everyone working in the above way took an unpaid day off every fortnight, the productivity and targets would be skewed.

Surely, in the OP's scenario it's about everyone pulling their weight. Te Public Sector is becoming even more heavily scrutinised. Departments are frequently reviewed in order to attempt to reduce staffing levels. Behavious like that of the OP's colleague can lead to serious questions being asked about whether staffing levels are set too high.

Managers don't require people to monitor each other. What they do require is honesty. The colleague has specifically asked to work 10 days worth of hours over 9 days. She is not doing that and therefore is being dishonest.

Sorry if that seems petty or clock watching.

Whenever people have made complaints about colleagues in my experience it has been a total disaster. Management either bemused and took it out on the complainant or lunged in clumsily making things far worse. The best outcome I have seen has been where they did nothing and "lost" the complaint. No one was satisfied but things didn't get worse, which was a pleasant surprise. If they do investigate there's never any useful conclusion or result, just endless layers of kafkaesque bureaucratic fact finding whilst everyone involved gets more and more stressed. People get semi-suspended but refuse to leave and can't be made to go. The non-suspended get more worried and paranoid about how they are viewed.

I've never understood this faith in management/HR to sort these situations out! There must be some good ones out there (Callthemidlife sounds brilliant) but I have never met any in real life. (I have had a couple of immediate managers who are excellent and in this situation would probably do everything possible to avoid the complaint going any further up as they know what a disaster that would be for all concerned.) I would therefore avoid telling at all costs unless it really is a matter of life or death.

I do think you should have a really honest think about whether your office is broadly a flatbread get the job done well and screw the minor details (mine is totally like this and you would be seen as a nitpicking meanie if you complained about anyone as all team members are long-term, celebrated, highly valued, their flaws affectionately discussed and forgiven) or whether others work as you do. Maybe as callthemidlife suggests there are a mixture of expectations within the team?

I'm a trusting, easy-going manager with a flexi-system for people. I'd like to know if it's being abused.

Flatbread, you are ignorant, and ill-informed regarding work in the public sector.

I'm with smink its about getting the work done, and well, not how many hours you sit at tour desk

Plenty of people put in lazy, wasteful hours...those are the people that coat the company

Hatgirl unfortunately ultimately I think you have to take a zen approach and try to stop letting it rile you. This is very hard and not fair, but in my long experience of a situation like this, you just end up getting very stressed about the "unfairness" and it eats away at you. Management are aware of the person's habits but there is nothing bad anough to cause a disciplinary, and in fact in my experience the person doing the complaining somehow ends up in the wrong. Also management would probably just blanket remove everyone's compressed hours.

It's difficult because you work next to this person, but really I think you just have to decide not to let it get to you UNLESS it really affects your own workload. In which case you need to talk to her straight, without dropping hints or making up stuff about fictitious monitoring.

But if she is not really affecting your workload, apart from the extent to which other colleagues do when they ask you for IT help, then try to let it go.

Several years ago there was a colleague in the team I worked in who was abusing the flexi system - coming in late and leaving fairly early. We told her that we had heard that management were going to start comparing our flexi sheets with the actual time we swiped through the electronic barriers at the entrance (this was a lie). She did start coming in earlier for a time, but didn't work any harder.

Generally I think it is up to the company to have a robust system. In my own organisation (civil service), managers are supposed to do spot checks and staff also submit their forms to their managers every four weeks. Frankly it is up to the line manager to keep a check on matters, not other staff.

I would just keep out of it. Its her manager's job, not your's, to keep an eye on her working hours.
Maybe the manager has actually decided to give her a bit of leeway because she's nearing retirement and has worked hard for the company for years.
Or maybe he's not that bothered by the actual 'hours' people put in and is more interested in their output and is happy with the work this woman is producing.
I think you could find yourself very unpopular with colleagues if they get the impression that you go running to the boss to report your peers for things.

I have sympathy for the OP and have myself been annoyed with shirkers. But that's usually been a reflection of my own disatisfaction with my role. I have also been a skiver myself. It's never caused me any guilt. I'm good and quick and don't impact anyone else. I also now in a different job work huge hours and work well into the night on calls and follow up emails/docs etc.

Generally in public service it is a big deal if skiving is spotted by your manager because it is failing to fulfil the terms of your contract. However, it is much much healthier to focus on your own career track rather than reporting colleagues. Work is a long term game. The woman is pissed off with not getting her retirement and I can see how that would affect her 'couldn't give a stuff' approach. If she has valuable experience it would have been more sensible to give her the retirement and hire her as a consultant for a certain amount of time to document her knowledge. Nobody should be so indispensible that they can't leave. The manager should make sure that knowledge is shared.

I'm good and quick and don't impact anyone else. (Quote)

I think that's a good point and is one of the reasons I'm a bit dubious about flexi time. Some people work better in short, concentrated bursts than by trying to drag their workload out over a standard set of hours. In an ideal world I think people would be expected to get through a set amount of work per week as opposed to simply working a set amount of hours. I know that wouldn't be practical to implement, but some people get through a lot more work in an hour than others, but flexi time doesn't take this into account.

A colleague of mine, due to retire in July, has worked out that if all his unpaid overtime over the last thirty or so years was taken into account he'd be able to retire now. Maybe your colleague feels something similar.

OP... if it's true that your manager talked to YOU about her reservations about your colleague working with the flexi system then SHE is very unprofessional. Did she realyl voice her concerns to you?

I can't imagine that a manager, having such reservations, wouldn't have the system in place to monitor the new scheme.

The only thing you can do is to ask how the scheme is monitored - mention nobody else. That is your 'due dilligence' and you can use it as your defence if you need to in future.

Now... get on with your work (assuming that you're working today).

Pan... I think you're the one who is wrong, rather than Flatbread. I got out of local government after 20 years in several different councils and ALL of them had issues with abuse of the flexi scheme and lazy employees... and perhaps even lazier managers. The managers often didn't react in what would be the obvious way and that is for the reasons that Flatbread has described. It doesn't mean it's the right way to run a business but then the public sector ISN'T a business and never will be.

I still work with local authorities now - across the UK and am stupefied at the level of lethargy and williness to make the systems fit their own lazy working practices. I have about 30% of the UK's public sector as clients. Nothing would ever induce me to return to it.

Lying - your misunderstanding 'the public sector' - this isn't the same as 'local authorities'. Flatbread's slur was on public sector workers. I know and work with and along side lots of PS employees and none of them fit your or flat's comments.